21st Century Schools and a plan for the future of the Hull Public Schools
>>>>>FYI Update<<<<<
To see the Massachusetts School and District Profiles 2007-08 Teacher Salaries Report click here>>> 2007-08 Teacher Salaries Report
To See The total School District Expenditures, All Funds, By Function, FY06 to FY08 for the Hull district Click Here>>> School District Expenditures <<<
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Good morning.
I would like to invite you to a joint meeting of the Board of Selectmen, Advisory Board and School Committee. This meeting will take place on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 at 7pm in the high school cafeteria. The school leadership team will present information regarding 21st Century Schools and a plan for the future of the Hull Public Schools. All are invited and encouraged to attend.
Thank you and have a wonderful day.
Michael Devine
Principal
Hull High School
This meeting, (21st Century Schools and a plan for the future of the Hull Public Schools), conflicts with the Board of Selectman's' meeting.
The Selectman's' meeting is the same night at 7:30 PM and this group at the cafeteria of Hull High is at 7:pm. How can the selectmen be at both meetings?
JW
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This is a joint meeting of the BOS, SC, and AB It is being held at 7 pm in the HS Cafeteria. It is duly posted at Town Hall and the Town Website.
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Thanks!
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On the Town website under the meetings calendar It says the Selectmen are meeting at 7pm on Tuesday Jan 12th in the Hull High School Cafeteria
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This is an error. I am sure Nancy can update this Right Away on Monday.
The official Posting is at Town Hall.
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TWENTY FIRST CENTURY WHAT!
We already gave you the money for your 21st century schools. Its not our fault you decided to spend it on the Ritz Carlton at Harborview Rd. Maybe you should have thought about putting some money aside for academics and extracurricular activities? No, you had to go for broke on these buildings. Anyone that has not seen them please go inside and see how the SC spent your tax dollars. Someone get that TAX AX out of retirement!
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Wow, I thought this place would be on fire after that meeting last night.
Ok, everybody here that thinks the economy has improved raise your hand.
And if ya need something to read while your pondering that, read this:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-01-09/shrinking-u-s-labor-force-keeps-unemployment-rate-from-rising.html
Gas prices going up does not mean the economy is improving, mortgage rates starting to inch up don't either. Lets not confuse profiteering with improving economy.
Ok, everybody here that does not want to provide the children of hull the best possible education THAT WE CAN AFFORD, raise your hand. And it scared me from the point of just how far the disconnect is when someone at that meeting last night said something about public education "being free".
I mean, hey, I'd like to build an attached 2 car garage to my house, but we can't afford it, so its not gonna get done.
I'm disabled, live in a 2 story house, the only bathrooms upstairs, and have a very difficult time going up and down stairs.
I'd Love to have a bathroom on the 1st floor but CAN'T AFFORD IT, so we don't have one.
I drive a 10 year old car, love to have a new one, but can't afford it, so I'm not getting one.
My coffeemaker leaks a little but still makes coffee, GUESS WHAT, Can't afford a new one so old leaky is still on the job.
The little bit of money we set aside for our grandchildrens education 4 years ago STILL hasn't recouped what the initial investment was, never mind making a dollar or 2 for the future.
Lets also not forget an OVERIDE is till we decide to remove it.And from the post presentation discussion last night it doesn't even appear we have a factual "real world" number as to what moneys wanted.
And did someone say last nite "we don't really want a blank check". well, uh, YES ya do. And accountability and transparency going forward, this is government, this is the way it was always supposed to be. It should be the normal course of events, not an exception to the rule. Or, was that a veiled threat that if we don't do this we(they) will go back into financial hiding.
Seemed to be an AWFUL LOT of some kind of "threats" in that presentation last night.
"Moral responsibility" and "all or nothing" seemed to be the cornerstones last nite. Hows about moral responsibility to fully fund and staff fire & police, or doesn't that count??
And "all or nothing", sorry, my choice HAS TO BE nothing. CAN'T AFFORD IT. Plain & Simple.
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Further comment- last nite one of our selectman made the comment about going out to dinner with a younger couple(must be nice, can't afford to do that either)with young children who were concerned about the state of public education in our town. And went on to explain about the escalating ramifications on property values, etc, if we don't do this.
Welp, lets put that shoe on the other foot, HOW will this effect property values, etc, if we DO allow this to happen?? We will be paying the overide ON TOP of our taxes going up every year like they already do. Our taxes will go up & up from multiple sources, people don't look at how much the taxes are when looking at a home to potentially purchase??
Hull is still DEEP in the throes of a major RE depression, the few homes that are selling are generically selling for right at or below tax assessed values. The bubble has burst, the "pattern is full", it can't take anymore.
How many people in town gonna be putting up for sale signs up or just plain walking away when taxes are guaranteed to go up, 3, 4, $500 Dollars a year?? And on top of what else??
I noticed no one speak about how this would individually be afforded, just like the last time with the debt exclusion, "We" were told it would be talked about, but it never was.
I'm also on a fixed income, disabled I don't have a choice. Ya know what the increase in my fixed income was this year- ZERO.
The collective Bodies of our towns government is gonna force people out of this town with their absolute historical refusal to be anything but "big picture thinkers". Ya gotta know how to save a hundred dollars before ya can save a thousand dollars, more than one member of the BoS has heard that from me over the years.
WHERE is the money gonna come from folks, WHERE?? And not "big picture" numbers, individual tax payer numbers.
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I'm with you johnnyboy.
I can not afford it either. My taxes just went up $400. I sat at that meeting listening to the town manager and the superintendent babble on about valuing our schools. It's the same song they gave us 10 years ago. Now they are coming back again looking for 1.9 million dollars or $370 a household. Of course they can support it, they don't pay taxes in this town and make well over $100,000.($139,000 and $150,000.)
I'm sorry my husband and I and don't make half that combined. Like I said before the school dept. should have put some money aside for academics and extracurricular activities. I ask you to look around these schools and count up all the fancy extras that make them look like grand hotels. We did not need those extras, a great example is the picture of the entrance of the elementary school on this blog. All of these things mentioned took money out of our pockets and put our schools on the road to not being accredited. How can we believe you now? We have schools that are empty because of declining enrollment and now you want to close a school down after spending all that money. We have a wing in the Jacobs school that has been leaking for two years now. I urge you to go look at the pre-school rooms, there are ceiling tiles missing all over the place. I thought their was a plan to take care of these buildings? You promised us you would take care of them. Why haven't these leaks been fixed? Will we have mold again?
I am sorry but the tax payers can not bail you out anymore. We have to work with our budgets to get by in these tough economic times and so should you.
I also kept hearing that this plan is a road map for the future. Maybe all of you should consider investing in a GPS!
I am all for education but only if the money is put in the right places. Sorry we just can't afford it. Not this time.
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In 2008, I asked Kristen Evans if the sc had a Preventive Maintenance Plan in place regarding the taxpayers $60,000,000 investment.
Ms. Evans' reply: "We must have by now."
She was the sc chair at the time & has been on the sc longer than any other member.
This Preventive Maintenance Plan was part of the Agreement w/the SBC & the 71% reimbursable money promised by the state treasurers office.
I also asked, many times, if the sc had a Capital Improvement Plan in place. Their answer was, "We're working on that."
When the sc initiated a Budget Sub-Committee w/members of the Advisory Board they were to take a hard look at the data. These mtgs. were held at Hadassah Way at 8:00 AM.
I was always concerned about the time of these mtgs. & sarcastically suggested to meet at 2:00 AM instead of 8:00 AM so they could guarantee the residents/taxpayers would not be in attendance.
Needless to say, they did not appreciate my sarcasm.
As for the leaks, I suggested that the town/sc pay Paul Dunphy a stipend to oversee the Preventive Maintenance of the schools.
Paul is a professional in this field & works at M.I.T. & Harvard doing this work. It is his forte. Nobody wanted anything to do w/that idea & now people are hearing about leaks at the Jacobs. Will that money come out of the school dept. budget & take away from education the students?
As for this recent mtg, I cannot believe the arrogance of the supt. in continuing to ask the taxpayers for more money. I say the superintendents' arrogance & not the sc members because the sc is responsible for holding the supt. accountable. They refuse to do that.
The sc allows the violation of so many laws, sc policies, & NEASC mandates that if the truth be known, nobody would believe it.
The administrative shenanigans that goes on at the Jacobs administrative wing is humiliating to most but not to the sc or supt. They still will not use the D.O.E. data that the supt sends to the D.O.E. Nobody wants to look at the ledger. If you go through the financial info that Tyrell sends to the D.O.E. you would be able to zero in on the problem regarding the overspending.
Concerned residents should organize a Power Point Presentation of the D.O.E. facts on Cable TV.
If anyone agrees, count me in.
People wonder why I was so appalled during my brief time as a member. People say my delivery was inappropriate & I must agree that I could use some work on those things but I never thought of anyone but the students & the education/treatment of those students. I am repelled by the behind the door appointments & schemes. It is a form of bullying just as the on-going attacks on the residents of Hull by the sc & superintendent & the 40 students that dropped out in two yrs. To have private mtgs. to organize a group that uses the children to knock on doors & beg residents to vote for the override disgusts me to no end. These groups would invite the TM & other public servants to these mtgs. for advice. What a group!
JW
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Well, I also figure something like this isn't very far away at all here in hull:
http://www.patriotledger.com/news/x1409375255/Real-estate-taxes-hiked-3-percent-in-Holbrook
We'll probably arrive at an increase like this in a different way, but we'll probably still get there. By the end of this CY I figure, we probably have a massive tax increase coming to us.
And thats WITHOUT any overides or debt exclusions. In our case right now we pay just a shade over $4K in taxes on a property assessed for $345K.
With an overide, debt exclusion, however the wording comes out in the wash, PLUS what I think is gonna happen to our basic tax rate, I can foresee us paying maybe as much as $6K @ year in RE taxes in 3 or 4 years. On maybe even a smaller assessed value.
So; to flip the "if we don't do this we're going to destroy our communitys property values" arguement, what will raising our RE taxes "to infinity and beyond" do to our communitys property values and family liveability???
I would tend to think a young family looking to move to a community to settle down and raise that family is gonna look beyond just how good our school system is or isn't. I'm not young with a family in public school age anymore, but I'm pretty sure if I was in that market looking not only would the quality of the schools be in my line of sight, but also what that quality cost me every year in tax dollars.
And I'd be looking at more than just the school system as well. Hows them seawalls that might be protecting my new home doing?? Hows that Fire Dept doing, sure looks like they could use some help. Hows about that Police Dept?? They gonna be able to get to my house quick enough some wacko idiot with a machete trying to kick my front door in during the middle of the night?? These are questions I might have were I family aged and looking for a place to settle in and raise that family.
I also; in a way, feel bad for the school kids of Hull right now.The adults of this town that are supposed to be in charge of things and "leaders" of the community have now foisted them right up onto the middle of the "you MUST give us more money battle". They did it during the debt exclusion, now it appears they gonna do it with the overide battle. Thats teaching 'em POLITICS, not GOVERNMENT. Who knows, maybe that is appropriate for a "21st Century School"
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There was nothing about that presentation or the people giving it that inspired me to further compromise my families financial status. The SC and Tryll have not been responsible with the millions given. Why should we trust them to put their fingers back into the towns cookie jar? If the school system is in such a critical and dangerous state then it is their fault. They have all been in charge for years now and I blame all of this mess squarely on them. Lets consolidate the two of the three schools for a huge savings. Lets elect new people who can be trusted. And last but not least, so they know we truly mean what we say, VOTE NO on any override for the schools and library.
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As a long-time Hull taxpayer, I am concerned about ongoing escalating costs pertaining to our school system - especially during a recession that could take another 3-5 years from which to recover. Hitting up taxpayers for a couple million dollars every few years is not a scalable solution to managing our school budgets. Let's face it, the Hull Schools are not great, and no matter how much money we throw at them, they are still subpar - which is probably why many so many Hull parents send their children to private schools. Let's cut a deal w/Scituate (lots of empty classrooms there), Hingham or Cohasset & pay them $10k/year per student to educate our children. This would cost Hull $12 mil/yr vs. (plus transportation costs) vs. the $24 mil we currently spend. It would boost the other school's coffers so sports, arts & music could be added back into the curriculum. We won't have to pay into retirement funds, health insurance, etc. We can put the school buildings to good use - using one for a new town hall, another for a library & senior/teen center, and perhaps use the third one for handicapped accessible senior housing.
Whitman-Hanson combined their school systems a few years ago and it worked beautifully, allowing 2 small towns to share the costs of educating their children.
Children in Boston's METCO system spend 2-3 hours' commuting a day to get an education at the school of their choice. Children attending private school in this region do the same.
Why not band together with other towns to share the costs of educating our children? This might be the only economically feasible way for our town to provide educate our children well in the future, without going broke in the process.
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CORRECTION: Hull's school budget is $12 million, so I would change the above to: Let's cut a deal w/Scituate (lots of empty classrooms there), Hingham or Cohasset & pay them $5-6k/year per student to educate our children (plus transportation costs) vs. the $12 mil we currently spend.
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Just an FYI - school budget for this year is under 12 million, not 24 million.
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Hello,
When referring to this D.O.E. data, the administrative costs range from $888.607 in 2006 to $889,336 in 2008. The 2007 expenditure for administrative costs was $920,649. This is very high in comparison to the surrounding school districts.
Even more amazing is the $1,095,597 for Instructional Leadership in 2006. This line item increased to $1,422,694 in 2007 which was a 29.9% increase in Tyrell's first year. Again, in 2008, this Instructional Leadership line item increased to $2,127,266, a 49.5% increase from 2007 and almost a 100% increase from 2006. Tyrell came aboard in 2007 and ever since then these numbers have almost doubled. In 2006, the Instructional Leadership cost was $1,095,597 whereas in 2008, in Tyrell's second year as superintendent, the Instructional Leadership line item increased to $2,127,266. From 2006 to 2008 this line item has increased almost 100% from $1,095,5697 to $2,127,266.
This has nothing to do with the administrative costs at Hadassah Way which is $889,336 in 2008.
Looking at Other Teacher Services there has been a decline in spending of 225% since Tyrell's arrival and a 600% decrease in Professional Development from 2006 to 2008.
Jack Wholey
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Please open the attachment under FYI in red, entitled School District Expenditures.
If the sc would hold the superintendent accountable for the $3,116,602 spent on administrative costs and Instructional Leadership costs, there would be plenty of money for highly qualified computer tech teachers, industrial tech teachers, business courses, social studies teachers at the Memorial, guidance counselors, and maybe even adding Latin, as a foreign language at the middle school and high school.
The sc and superintendent could run an excellent public school system if only they would stop spending so much time on trying to convince the taxpayers to vote on an override. The taxpayers/residents have already made their vote clear. No more taxes!
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AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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We are getting a good sold a tale when it comes to the 21st century school plan concocted by the Superintendent and the School Committee. I want to see a complete break down of the 1.9 million needed to bring our schools up to 21st century standards.
The library at the Jacobs school is OPEN and staffed by VOLUNTEERS , No class goes without access to this beautiful library. Five days a week Volunteers arrive and greet the students, check books in and out and shelve the books, New books are entered into the computer system so they can be put into circulation for all the students to enjoy. The library is clean and orderly because of the Volunteers. The Memorial School library is awaiting more Volunteer Parents/ Grand Parents to step up and get that space open to the students.
I refuse to pay 75% of the cost for drama, sport or any other extracurricular activity. No one helps fund my life, I’m on a budget and the schools need to be on one also. Let us start teaching the students you can’t have it all no matter how much you want it. What new equipment are they in need of and for what class room ?
Want want want …...that’s all you here from the Schools and the School Committee. The Superintendents statement of NO NEGOTIATION says it all. My vote is NO to override.
I looked on cable over the long weekend and never got to see the so called meeting. I was home all day the 18th and never came across it either. Did it actually air ?
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This proves that good things are happening in spite of town hall and not because of it. The only time any good gets accomplished here is when the citizens get together and do it. The school committee, board of selectmen are corrupt and should not be given another dime to mishandle.
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The Drama group, better known as Hull High Theatre Arts, has raised and handled over $327,000 from September 2005- September 2009. In just four years, that group.
Prior to September 2005, the Hull High Theatre Arts took in the proceeds of their fund raising events and plays etc... This went on for years and possibly decades. That money should have gone to the Town Treasurer to subsidize the school department budget.
Jack W
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Superintendent Tyrrel - NO NEGOTIATING = NO 1.9 Million Overide,
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I cannot support the proposed override. I feel that my tax monies are going towards administration, not education. The SC needs to address that problem and then close the Middle School.
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Jack Wholey
What are the ethical & moral obligations of government officials?
A casual observer of Hull’s elected & appointed government officials could easily come away w/the perception that elected & appointed officials have a lot of authority & autonomy.
For sure, the authority component exists but not the autonomy. Some public officials perceive themselves as having significant autonomy & also act it out. Herein lie the problem w/many “discretionary” decisions of these public officials. Sometimes, the moral, ethical, & often illegal decision making of public officials can be construed as violations of the public trust.
What is meant by the expression, “The Public Trust?”
The ‘Ideal type” bureaucracy posits the fact that officials in public office do not have ownership of their positions. Ownership belongs to the people, the taxpaying people.
Elected officials appoint administrators who select other individuals & entrust them w/the public’s resources to pursue goals that serve the public good. These elected officials, their appointees, & others are public servants.
As long as the behaviors of these groups are consistent w/official rules, regulations, & the pursuit of goals that serve the interest of the public, one can say that the trust placed in the hands of these officials is being satisfied.
But, at times, the discretionary authority the public places in the hands of elected officials is abused. Public resources are sometimes utilized to serve the personal interest of officials.
Question: Has the sc & the superintendent violated the public’s trust? If so, can it be restored?
The sc hired Ms. Tyrell in 2007, as superintendent. Since then we have had 40 students drop out of school in the past two years. Some say that these students were sacrificed for the sake of increasing the MCAS scores.
Jonathan Ford was the principal at HHS during this time & when he left to become assistant superintendent in Stoughton, our sc members sent him off with an ingenious check for
$56,491. (Can you imagine being presented w/a check for $56,491)?
Tyrell broke down this $56,491 w/ $17,099 for unused sick days, $2,192 for unused vacation time, & $37,200 in “creditable service” for previous years in NY State. Ford also had a contract provision that will increase his pension when he retires.
Tyrell’s Settlement in Foxboro:
A lump sum payment of $175K was given to Ms. Tyrell on 9/18/2006. According to the Executive Session minutes of 9/18/2006, “The Committee discussed the issues that led to the superintendent’s decision to resign.” Somehow, Ms. Tyrell’s attorney negotiated a $175K lump sum payment on 9/18/2006.
In November 2006, Ms. Tyrell became employed in Hull as the interim principal at the Jacobs.
Now, Ms. Tyrell wants more money from the Hull taxpayers! When does it end? Has the sc/superintendent violated the public’s trust yet? Or, is there more of the taxpayers’ hard earned money going into the sc & superintendent’s direction?
JW
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Ok School Committee.... it is time to come clean like all of the performance enhancer users. I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE OF YOU USED THEM EITHER!!!!...but you need to admit that you screwed up big time. You let us down. It takes a big person to admit when you are wrong and none of you ever will! All of you negotiated a contract with the superintendent that this town could not afford. You also did not negotiate it when you said you did. NO.... all of you had to be sneaky and undermined. We put you in those seats and I expect honesty and trust like any other taxpayer. None of you were honest it was a back door deal giving her anything she wants like our town manager!
We spent $60 million on buildings and now my kid is lacking what she needs to get into college. Where you not thinking where you were going to get the money for academics years later? This is like buying a huge subzero fridge and not being able to afford to put food in it. That's what the sc did with these buildings. Where is the trust? I guess its where the beef is. Not in my fridge.
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I am surprised that you do not mention the Teachers Contract, as that has a more detrimental effect dollar-wise.
Those percentages (and it is NOT 2% as some would report. It is much higher) add up to a far greater cost.
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The teachers contract was done awhile ago and we all new it was coming.
The SC approved it so they are the ones to blame for that increase. The superintendents contract was done behind closed doors and renewed without us knowing during these tough economic times. There was also a fat sum put in her retirement account. Maybe she should donate that back to the town she makes $139,000. almost triple what I make. This is not the time to ask for money. Isn't it funny how this town likes to remind us that are taxes are due. I love the blue sign coming into town. Don't worry you will get at the end of the month but not in May. No override!
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Jack Wholey To Common Sense:
“Contempt prior to investigation leaves a man in total ignorance.”
Professor Irwin Corey
Re: Teacher Salaries Report from the Massachusetts Department of Education under the Massachusetts School and District Profiles:
Calculating the average teacher salary in these 23 school districts equals $63,874. When you compare this $63,874 average to Hull teachers, the Hull teacher is paid $8,203 less on average.
If the Hull Teachers Association were to negotiate and get the average teacher salary of these 23 school districts, the school committee would need an additional $836,706.
(We need to keep teachers in our school district. We have to pay at least the average of other school districts. We do not need more quasi administrators and/or patronage appointments.)
Hull teachers are paid $55,671 on average. They are the lowest paid teachers out of the following 23 school districts, by far.
So, common sense entry, your calculations are so far off that you might consider doing a better job with researching your claims.
AVERAGE SALARY
Nantucket: $78,627
Milton: $72,221
Mashpee: $71,878
Winthrop: $68,447
Dedham: $67,269
Duxbury: $67,259
Westwood: $66,504
Norwell: $65,999
Quincy: $64,825
Brockton: $64,315
Marshfield: $63,431
Hingham: $63,329
Cohasset: $62,404
Braintree: $61,682
Weymouth: $61,526
E. Bridgewater: $61,226
Rockland: $60,769
Easton: $60,456
Pembroke: $60,213
Carver: $59,809
Abington: $59,807
Scituate: $59,709
Hanover: $59,162
HULL: $55,671
JW
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I will wait until further details come out to decide where I stand on a potential override.
Until then, I find the leap of taking shots at SC and the Super at the expense of children rather ignorant.
The school dept has laid off more than 40 people in the last 3 years. 40!! Maybe there was some waste, but after cutting 40 people, there simply cannot be much left.
I think we all need to think long and hard about this question: do we let our feelings for SC and Super dictate whether we provide for the children of our town?
JW points out the higher teacher salaries in the other districts. They also offer programs that make the kids more marketable to colleges. We have empty classrooms because we are not offering what we should be offering. We, as a community have cut 40 school positions in 3 years.
Sit behind your computer and say, "The super and SC aren't getting anymore of my money." You aren't hurting them. You are hurting our children. Our kids deserve the same chances that the kids in the towns JW lists get.
I think I might have talked myself into voting for an override. I want our kids to go, leave this town, and grow, someday to come back and make it a better place. I had that chance as many of you did. They deserve it.
I don't want them staying here, walking the streets and bleeding the system on the other end. If the greater good will cost me a buck a day, then I am in.
Help me out here, what is a quasi administrator??
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Throwing more money at the District will NOT solve the issues. It never does. It is HOW you spend what we have that will make the difference.
QUANTITY OF FUNDS DOES NOT EQUAL QUALITY OF SCHOOLS.
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Hi,
Your statement is so true. The school department has the money. It is the sc that refuses to hold the superintendent accountable for her hirings, spending on quasi-administrators, patronage appointments, the favoritism in funding at the Jacobs compared to the other two schools, the per pupil expenditure for administration, instructional leadership, refusal to include student activity accounts in the budget, refusal to include gifts and/or donations in the budget, the generous cash gifts to administrators such as Ford over $59,000 in cash, the over $240,000 paid for lawyers, law suits lost (Hazeltine, Harte, Heavern,& others), inability to implement a Preventative Maintenance Plan and a Capital Improvement Plan, and the elimination of entire departments at HHS and the middle school.
The middle school has been w/o a librarian, computer classes, certified social studies teachers, a full student support team w/ enough guidance staff, & foreign language courses.
The HS is w/o business courses, industrial arts, computer technology and a full student support team w/o a fully staffed guidance department at the start of the year. 40 students dropped out of school in a two year period. That is ludicrous. Nobody in administration or the sc seems to care about those students.
Jack Wholey
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I hear that refrain often and tend to agree that pouring more money into the schools is not a solution, but there are some problems with that logic. For example when sports teams pay top salaries they get top players and tend to do well. Also, the towns that spend the most on education and have the highest paid teachers tend to have better results. So will Hull teachers being paid a little closer to the state average result in better results? Perhaps money spent more wisely, on actual teaching of children, would help. Almost everyone in the private sector thinks that getting paid more leads to increased performance. I think it is an axiom that if people are underpaid they will under perform. The School Committee apparently believes this for their administrators (but not for teachers). Hence the $45,000.00 bonus they agreed pay to the last principal.
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Ford received $57,000 from sc.
Can you imagine, $57,000 as a going away present.
They are sending money to Tyrell, Ford, Q, the law firms, Hazeltine, Heavern, Harte, Merrigan, Doniger, Scribner, consultants, professional development teams from all over the country &, of course, $1.2M for Tyrell's office.
The Jacobs is receiving many services. The sc members have children attending the Jacobs.
There is Kristen, Harte, Richardson, Canavan, Peters, & Merrigan.
Canavan is the chairman of the Advisory Board. Mary Merrigan is still collecting $15-$20K as a consultant that oversees the out of district special needs students. Tyrell communicated that Merrigan was not special needs certified.
The Student Activity Accounts are mandated by M.G.L. to be audited yearly. The HH Theatre Arts has dealt w/over $327,000 from 9/2005-9/2009. This money should go to the town treasurer as audits completed by CPA, Ray Kasperiouz, has stated that the student activity Accts. were processed in violation of state laws.
Fundraising has been in the millions throughout the years & money raised using the Hull public school name should go straight to the town treasurer & included in the school budget.
HASC raises hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years & that money should be presented as a gift to the school dept. through an open mtg. agenda item. This gift should also be included in the school budget. All this cash if submitted to the town treasurer would bring relief to the taxpayers.
Merrigan is the president of HASC & Kristen is VP. I am sure that Tyrell appreciates the money raised at fundraising events & wine tasting nights at Jakes.
Money is flying all around the place through the generosity of the sc. You cannot defeat Evans or Richardson because their parents & grand-parents have a very long & admirable history in Hull politics going back to the 60's.
Between the Hull Village girls of Evans, Peters, Bowes, Merrigan, Lisa Rogers-Canavan & their political machine, you will never get someone that can get elected & they know that.
On September 18, 2006 Tyrell receives a buy-out from Foxboro, $175K. How would you like to hold that check in your hands. 2 months after depositing that $175K Tyrell was given the interim principals position at the Jacobs in November 2006. What was she paid for that 8 months, maybe $100K.
Tyrell was then hired as the supt. & a colleague of Evans becomes the Jacobs principal.
Compare spending on special education teachers & paras at the three schools.
Jacobs:
$783K teachers (Special Ed)
$224K paras (Special Ed)
Memorial:
$152K teachers (Special Ed)
$ 33K paras (Special Ed)
HHS
$243K teachers (Special Ed)
$ 50K paras (Special Ed)
TOTAL:
Jacobs: $1,007,000
Memorial: $185K
HHS: $293K
Administrative salaries:
Tyrell: $141,831
Asst. Supt: $117,300
Finance/Operations: $139,249
Bus. Support: $84,884
CPC/ $47,963
* HPS's has not had a state certified Business Manager in 15 years, if ever. Hull needs a Business Manager.
JW
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I hear that refrain often and tend to agree that pouring more money into the schools is not a solution, but there are some problems with that logic. For example when sports teams pay top salaries they get top players and tend to do well. Also, the towns that spend the most on education and have the highest paid teachers tend to have better results. So will Hull teachers being paid a little closer to the state average result in better results? Perhaps money spent more wisely, on actual teaching of children, would help. Almost everyone in the private sector thinks that getting paid more leads to increased performance. I think it is an axiom that if people are underpaid they will under perform. The School Committee apparently believes this for their administrators (but not for teachers). Hence the $45,000.00 bonus they agreed pay to the last principal.
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A seemingly good example with professional sports salaries, But flawed.
Teachers don;t get bonuses for great performance, Teachers have good job security once hired. Schools everywhere have poor teachers that can't be let go!
So, What is the incentive to for a teacher to perform other than their own work ethic?
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Good question! It begs the related questions: What is the incentive for a teacher who is underpaid to perform? To continue teaching in Hull? For the students to perform when they know their teachers are among the lowest paid and least valued on the South Shore? Looking forward to all of your answers.
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JW
To teachyourchildren
The incentives for a teacher to perform is not answered easily. I can give some incentive & maybe some others can add.
1) Teachers are evaluated or they should be evaluated using the evaluation process set up by the D. O. E. ( some teachers in Hull were not evaluated for 12 years)
If you do not receive a good evaluation that could be a problem. If you have two consecutive evaluations that Does Not Meet Expectations, you could be in jeopardy of your job, especially if you are a provisional teacher, not tenured.
Tenure is achieved on the first day of your 4th year. If you are tenured it can be more difficult to get rid of a teacher.
Ms. Hazeltine would have been tenured if she worked just 1 day this year but the sc eliminated her position & then added it back later.
2) Incentive to become Highly Qualified as mandated by Ed Reform. Every 5 years a teacher must present their PDP to the D. O. E. for re-certification. This obligation includes 120 PDP's that you can accumulate through workshops & seminars offered by the school or graduate level courses in your content area.
For example: Seminars & workshops usually calculate to one professional development point for each hour spent in these workshops/seminars. So if you take a workshop for 2 hours a day for 3 days, you receive 6 PDP's.
3) Some teachers opt to take a graduate course & receive 45 PDP's for a 3 credit course. The advantage to this path is that 3 courses covers the 120 PDP mandate of the D.O.E. & at the same time you can move up the pay scale.
I, myself, opted for the courses & even though the cost for a 3 credit graduate level course is $1000 one accumulates credits toward pay increases.
In the Boston Public Schools the Contract allowed for pay raises from a Bachelor's Degree up through a Doctorate. (bachelors plus 15 graduate level credits, bachelors+30 credits, bachelors +45 credits & so on including master's +15, master's +30, master's +45, +60, +75.
So the incentive is for:
1) pay increases,
2) professional development,
3) increase pension benefits because your pension is 80% of your highest 3 years
In Boston, a teacher with a master's plus 75 & over 14 years of service receives $91,000 per year.
Some Hull teachers w/30-35 years of service opted to stay w/their bachelors degree & that is a problem of central administration.
A teacher such as this would max out w/the avg. of their highest 3 years being $55,000. Their pension would be 80% of that average which calculates to $44,000 you can keep your insurance plan.
In Boston, Blue Cross family is $28,000. The city pays 75% of that or $21,000. The teacher pays 25% or $7,000.
If you receive a teachers pension, you cannot receive social security. This social security money that is earned by the employee is not available to a teacher w/a pension.
So, these are some incentives as well as the obvious incentive of wanting to be as good a teacher as possible for the sake of the students.
Jack W
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It is a myth that Hull teachers are underpaid and undervalued. I don't know what subject matter you are teaching, teachyourchildren, but I hope it's not deductive reasoning or reading for comprehension. I also hope you are not teaching our children that education is something to be valued simply for the dollars it returns on a college investment.
One would hope that all teachers chose their career because they love children and love to impart knowledge. One would also hope they're good at their jobs. No one is holding a gun to a Hull teacher's head to get him or her to come here or to remain here. If one is unhappy with the level of compensation or any other aspect of the job, one can choose to teach elsewhere. There are plenty of talented teaching professionals who would love to educate our kids. And BTW a child is not a performing seal that “performs” for his or her teacher's gratification. It horrifies me that you would politicize our children's education with such sloganeering as “when they know their teachers are among the lowest paid...” etc. Just how would they know that and why should they care, unless they're being brainwashed at school.
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I was responding to the salary comparison link at the top of this page. I guess you didn't see it and perhaps my reading comprehension is not as good as yours. Check it out and let me know if its "mythical" that our teachers are paid less than most.Is that information accurate? Maybe I was wrong to assume it was. Do you think the kids of Hull are capable of clicking a link and finding out these salaries? Anybody know who posted the mythical link? (To see the Massachusetts School and District Profiles 2007-08 Teacher Salaries Report click here>>> 2007-08 Teacher Salaries Report)
Also,check out Jack Wholey's post on how much other teachers make. Maybe it is all just a myth and you have a right to be so horrified.
"Methinks thou doth protest too much."
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JW Response
To Tattletale & Hullonian
The Hull Blog staff submitted the FYI links for Teacher Salary & Total School Spending after I asked if there was a way to make it available to the public.
I would love to show this data through a presentation on Hull Cable TV but I am not allowed entrance into HHS w/o permission from Lampke, Tyrell, & Coach Q.
Tattletale states ‘It is a myth that Hull teachers are underpaid & undervalued.’
At the top of the page under the red FYI there is a link entitled Teacher Salary Reports. Beneath that link, there is another entitled School District Expenditures from FY 06 to FY 08.
Bringing attention to the salaries of the teachers, Hull teachers are paid far less than teachers from surrounding communities. Tyrell was quoted as saying, ‘salaries are the number one reason teachers leave the Hull school district.’ This was Tyrell’s response to the accreditation Committee’s visit.
Matter of fact, Tyrell sited raising the teacher salary as the key goal for the next few years before the accreditation Committee returns to HHS, in 2011. Tyrell also noted that she conducted exit interviews of all teachers leaving the district during a two-year period. She stated that she did these exit interviews personally.
Maybe, comparing the Hull data to the following school districts might open some eyes as to the inequity in average teacher salary. School districts such as Cohasset, Hingham, Norwell, Duxbury, Marshfield, Abington, Scituate, Hanover, Weymouth, Quincy, Milton, Brockton, Pembroke, & Randolph would be a good sample of other school districts.
As for the comment, “No one is holding a gun to a Hull teacher’s head to come here or stay here.” Tattletale is absolutely right. But, the fact of the matter is, teachers are leaving Hull. Some are certainly leaving because of salary but also because of the politics.
I can tell you how other school district’s get & keep quality teachers if you are interested. But, it would be for another time.
As for the comment from Tattletale regarding the students possibly being brainwashed at HHS, nothing could compare to the brainwashing of the students during last years debt exclusion battle. Several HHS students & children were crying after learning of the failed attempt at raising taxes.
The brainwashing & pressure from parents, sc members, the HS principal & others was a travesty & most cowardly act by so-called leaders. Sending students & children out to fight a political battle for elected officials & administrators is classless. What kind of role models are these people that put students & children out on the streets to fight their battles? The principal, Ford, even wrote a personal check to this cause, but that might have been a thank you for the generous $57,000 gift from the sc.
How does that saying go? Is it ‘one hand washes the other?’
Now, those are the facts & they are indisputable.
Jack Wholey
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I feel compelled to restate that the salary report cited is not the only measure of a teachers compensation. AND, it may not be an accurate measure of comparison as the report does NOT list the average step for the teachers in each district. Furthermore, it should be a weighted average based on Steps, numbers of teachers at steps, and the salary based on those steps in each district. Then,there should be a comparison of Benefit costs that are picked up by the towns and the teachers to show the average total compensation for teachers in the districts used in the comparisons.
Siting one statistic to further one side of an argument is not responsible and NOT common sense.
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Do you have access to that data? It sounds like you think it may make the Hull teachers' salary more competitive with the surrounding towns. Does it?
Also, it would be helpful as we think about how to vote on an over ride, to have similar comparative data on other town departments. Anybody have it?
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To Tattletale and Hullonian:
Yes, the sc & superintendent will attempt another debt exclusion vote & if they lose, they will react like immature children, again. They will pout & then continue to hurt students by eliminating courses instead of cutting the administrative expenditures & the instructional leadership expenditures. When will they face the facts?
There are three glaring expenditures that the sc & superintendent refuse to answer.
THOSE THREE EXPENDITURES ARE:
Administrative Per Pupil Expenditures: $ 724
Instructional Per Pupil Expenditures 1,732
Total Per Pupil Expenditures HPS 13, 700
I am not going to bore the HullBlog readers w/a lengthy comparison of other town per pupil expenditures. I will just include a few local towns.
Cohasset PPE for administration is $611.
Abington PPE for administration is $281
Carver PPE for administration is $335
Duxbury PPE for administration is $380
Hanover PPE for administration is $407
Hingham PPE for administration is $371
Marshfield PPE for administration is $334
Westwood PPE for administration is $417
Winthrop PPE for administrations is $370
PPE/administration is $724 in Hull
PPE FOR INSTRUCTIONAL LEADERSHIP
Cohasset $850
Abington $461
Carver $724
Duxbury $598
Hanover $629
Hingham $684
Marshfield $539
Westwood $955
Winthrop $718
HULL $1,734
Hull sc & supt spend $1734 ppe for instructional leadership staff. Hull taxpayers/residents will never get an answer from the sc or supt. as to why they allow so much to be spent on instructional leadership personnel. Who are these instructional people & what do they do? Why does Hull spend $1000 per pupil more than Carver & almost $900 more than Cohasset.
When comparing a $900 difference in PPE to Cohasset, Hull spends $1,800,000 more.
$1,800,000 could go a long way in hiring computer teachers, industrial tech teachers, business teachers, guidance staff & maybe a foreign language teacher in Latin, Greek or Mandarin.
The Hull Public School District made a castle to live in for the superintendent and her entourage. I bet they are having a wonderful time up there in that state of the art facility. They must be smiling, joking & singing all of the way to the bank, especially Tyrell. I’m sure she sometimes has to pinch herself to make sure this is not all a dream. God, she has Richardson, Evans, Bowes, Peters, the Canavans, & any other member of their infamous group of cronies.
I wonder what kind of coffee machine is used up there. Do you think they make sure the coffee is brewing when they get a cell phone call from Ms. America letting them know that she is on her way home from Weston?
What a palace they work in. Perched up on the hill overlooking the beautiful Atlantic Ocean.
Jack Wholey
P.S. Tattletale: I looked up the PPE data for insurance & you have a good point. I’m going that data w/comparisons & send them along. You make a very good point that the sc & superintendent should be looking into much closer.
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There is little wonder why you failed as a SC member. Name calling never helps, Jack!
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To Anonymous:
Who are you? What is your name? Why the secrecy?
And, I did not fail as a sc member, I chose to resign because my wife was pregnant. There wasn't much of a choice after a late mtg. I was asked "What is more important, those people or this baby"
I immediately went to e-mail my resignation to P.D.
By the way, the mtg. was about the educational benefits of the senior class visiting Mickey Mouse, in Orlando. Imagine that! And, the price was $2800 a student.
The other vote that made me realize that I was surrounded by people who were using their elected positions for their personal gain & the gain of their little group was the vote on the superintendents state of the art executive offices at the Jacobs. This really did not click w/me until I realized that Merrigan, Evans, Peters, Canavan, & Richardson all would have children going there. Why do you think the Memorial School is being shot-changed & the Jacobs just hired MCAS staff that will work w/students during the school day. Two new hires that should go before the sc for approval in an Open Meeting, not by phone or behind closed doors. Why do you think that the Jacobs has 22 paras, the Memorial has one, & HHS has two? Why do you think that the Jacobs spends $783,075 for special needs teachers, the Memorial spends $152,816 & HHS spends $243,590?
Why do you think the Jacobs spends $224,716 on paras, the Memorial spends $33,376 & HHS spends $50,064?
Do not get me wrong. I was a para for 4 years before I became a special needs teacher. Paras are under paid & suffered more from the insurance change than other employees. But, if you want to say that HHS is using an Inclusionary model, you are wrong. Inclusion would need the help from the paras in the classroom w/ a special needs teacher & the regular education teacher.
Then you might have an Inclusionary Model & the students that dropped out might receive the same attention that the AP students do.
And, why is it that only 83% of the full time employes are licensed at HHS & only 83% are Highly Qualified in the core academic subjects of math, English, science & social studies, when the Jacobs has 98% of their employees certified & Highly Qualified in the core subjects?
That means that HHS students get short changed again. HH has 17% of their FTE that are not certified and 17% that are not Highly qualified in the content area subjects.
By NCLB standards 100% of the staff is supposed to be Highly Qualified or the parents are to be notified as to which teachers are not.
Now, NCLB doesn't mean 40 students dropping out in a 2 year period. If even one student drops out that should be a concern. But 40 students in 2 years w/96 suspensions in 2008. Talk about your no tolerance & bullying. Ford lacked compassion & Tyrell was too busy networking to negotiate her behind closed door pay raises & huge perks. Nobody gave those kids a thought.
Where are those students now? Maybe the outreach personnel can reach out.
Somebody has to care!
JW
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Tell that to the Kansas City Royals!
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Taking Shots? They (SC Super and TM) deserve them and you are condoning their behavior for not holding them accountable! Why don't you whip out your checkbook and give them blank checks? They are hurting our children, not the people that are speaking out. We speak out because we care and we are sick and tired with sneakiness that goes on in this town. I give to the schools and I am good parent but I will not give one more dime until things change drastically. I just can't afford it. My taxes, water bill, light bill, and sewer bill all have increased dramatically. We were promised change when we voted for these new schools cosmetically they have done a great job. Academically they receive an F.
My son will not be walking the streets and he will make something of himself because he has parents the support him emotionally and academically no matter what the outcome will be in May.
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In response to the post by "Anonymous" (1/21/2010 10:15 PM):You've said in one line that "The school dept has laid off more than 40 people in the last 3 years", and in another line that 40 "school positions in 3 years" were cut. I continue to challenge anyone to list (or send me bits and pieces of info that I'd be happy to organize) 40 people or positions that were cut. Look carefully at renaming of positions or shifting of individual staff members and tell me if there are really 40 people or positions gone. There most definitely are not nearly 40, there are a handfull. Don't buy and quote the story without checking into it further. I'll give you examples that I've used before: Example 1: A high school counselor returned mid-year 2 years ago after court-ordered reinstatement, to a third high school position that did not actually exist. She remained, and another retired. The third position (that did not actually exist) was NOT cut, since it did not exist, they simply kept the counselor who was reinstated, making room when the other one retired. Example 2 (related): the elementary/middle school counselor position was abolished for the current school year, the person from that position was moved to the high school, where the reinstated person was displaced (although the elementary school person resigned over the summer, as did the guidance director--the goal seems to have been to remove the reinstated counselor--watch for the elementary/middle school counselor position(s) to return, just as the wood/metal tech/CAD position will return, now that the individual who was targetted is gone). Does that guidance department dance count as a cut position, as "cutting" the third position was publicized, or a cut person (and if so, is that one of the alleged 40? --and is a "cut" retiree who returned as a consultant in another area (doing the same job, but being paid from a different funding source) a cut position or a cut person (or neither, since the same person is there doing the same job this year, although was "cut" at the end of the previous school year)?
Can you keep up with all that? Probably not, which seems to be the other goal. I won't spell out all of the details yet again, but you can go back and read them in my "they did not know what they were voting on" post of 1/4/10. See if you can keep up.
Hull kids are perfectly capable of being marketable to colleges if they take advantage of what is offered, and some do just that. Many students (not just in Hull) are not willing to take the advice they are given and enroll in suggested courses, do the work, and excell. They are capable, they have opportunities, and they are given the information they need. Yes, it would be very nice to have more AP courses available, for example, but there are a significant amount available, plus dual enrollment college level courses, and (some years) virtual HS courses. Students cheat themselves by not doing the work that prepares them for college-level work
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As I read back what I wrote about 40 positions/people not being gone, I should be more clear. I mean those who have been cut, not those who left on their own for any reason.
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Jack,
You quote is off base. I have investigated the contract. I have a copy.
I made no claim of Salary Comparison. I am speaking to what our town can afford. based on the Budget they have and how they spend it. If you wish to argue that our teachers are underpaid in comparison to other towns and that the increases are possible if other spending is curbed, so be it. I won't argue. But the facts are that the town is limited in revenue and the Salary increases for Hull Teachers are high in this contract when many of us in the private and public sector either took no increases at all or a decrease.
Do put words in my mouth. How coould you possible read into my statement that I was opposed to their salaries in contrast to other towns, when I made not mention. I was comparing increases to salaries within their contract.
The average increase year over year in the contract was approx. 6-8%!!! Some had double digit increase, very few were near 2%. Those at the low were new teachers while those at the high were longtime veterans.
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Responding to Commonsense (1/22/2010 8:56 AM):
Help me understand how you're interpreting "longtime veteran" teachers as getting more than a 2% raise in that contract? You can't be referring to those at the top of the scale, and they are the only longtime veterans left. People at the middle of the scale with 6 or 8 years of experience are experienced, but not longtime veterans.
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The step increases table in the contract is complicated and varies depending on where the step lies in the range of teacher education.
Furthermore, the language is difficult for most to understand. But at the risk of boring people to death and losing them in minutia, here goes...
Step 12 Masters year two $69,390 becomes $72,194 in year three. That is a 4% raise right there.
Those at step 7 would see 6.4% raises in year 3
Stipends are also tied to this table.
We should also remember that a teachers work year is shorter than those of us in the private sector.
I guess what I am trying to say is that this contract negotiated by the Teachers Union and the SC was bad for all in light of the known financial difficulties in the State and Town. The AB has warned us for years of a budget crisis. It came last year and still upon us. The school department knew of the revenues shortfalls and debt service mostly due to new buildings, yet they negotiated generous raises for three years. I say generous because those of us in the private sector are seeing ZERO raises or lowering of salaries to keep our jobs. The teachers were given a choice to forgo those raises in order to save fellow teachers jobs. They refused and let many get laid off. They ate their young. If I was a young teacher I might look to change the leadership in my union.
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Jobs and people were not cut to save money, regardless of how it was presented. Forgoing raises (which were already negotiated, unlike those of other groups whose contracts were not settled yet) would not have saved the jobs or the very few people who are not there this year.
How "many" were "laid off" who did not return in some equal capacity if they wanted to return? Look deeper. It seems like a very elaborate way to remove a couple of people in an attempt to do so without full public understanding of what's going on.
Newer/younger teachers have not been observing this for years, so may have fled the lunacy rather than stick around to see it happen to them in time. Either way, a lot of good people are gone. But the few would not still be there if teachers had willingly reopened a settled contract to further negotiations.
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While I have generally agreed with your post. I reject the notion that younger teachers getting involved in their Union would not make a difference. My understanding is that many younger teachers were, in fact, willing to forgo the raises last year, but were "spoken" to by other teachers to vote against that. Of course this is heresay as I heard this from someone else. But I trust that person to tell me the truth.
It is only common sense to think that veteran teacher would want their raises even at the cost of the younger teacher getting laid off. When the annual report comes out in May we will know which teachers are no longer with us. If not sooner. I still am trying to get that information.
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I bet I can guess your source of the admitted hearsay in paragraph 1, although I would not throw out a name in this venue.
I strongly believe that nobody was laid off (permanently, at least) due to veteran teachers accepting 2% raises, or anyone accepting raises that had already been negotiated. It would follow in that logic that the contract was not negotiated in good faith by the SC, since the difficult economic climate was well understood by the time the contract was settled (according to many posts in the "They did not know what they were voting on" thread). The economic climate in Hull has been difficult at least since Kathleen Reynolds presented panic about the schools needing renovations so badly that they were dangerous to inhabit if that override did not pass. Look deeply for the truth, don't accept what is presented on the surface.
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Jack Wholey
To Tattletale:
A Series of Unacceptable Attacks on Dr. Tyrell in Foxboro
A Familiar Trend from Superintendent Dr. Kathleen Tyrell
Foxboro School District NEASC Report: (May 5, 2004)
The Commission on Public Secondary Schools reviewed the Two-Year Progress Report of Foxboro High School & continued the school’s accreditation, but placed the school on warning for concerns regarding its adherence to the Commission’s Standard for Accreditation on School Resources for Learning.
Concerns prompting the warning status include:
- The elimination of guidance staff that has brought the student/counselor ratio above the Commission guideline of 300:1
Additionally, 14 of the original 57 recommendations were reported as Planned for the Future, an inordinately high percentage, according to the Commission.
Commission guidelines define Planned for the Future as meaning that “although the recommendation has not gone beyond the planning stage, it will be carried out as soon as conditions warrant.”
The Commission stated that a significant number of recommendations so reported appear not to have attached to them any conditions that would warrant any delay in the school’s ability to respond to them in some substantial manner.
(This sounds as though Ms. Tyrell is somewhat defiant regarding the Commissions’ requests. Is that the same Kathleen Tyrell that is supposed to be working in the best interest of the Hull students?)
Eventually, Tyrell negotiated a $ 175,000 buyout. This was on September 18, 2006. Ms. Tyrell then came to Hull and was acting principal from November 2006 until she became superintendent in Hull in July 2007.
During Ms. Tyrell’s tenure in Foxboro she was subject to a series of terrible incidents. Ms. Tyrell was quoted in the Foxboro Reporter on March 18, 2004.
“Tyrell said she’s had her tires flattened, her car egged, her office broken into, her credibility attacked and her reputation smeared by defamatory, anonymous group mailing.”
Tyrell continued, “these efforts have been designed to undermine my ability to lead this school system, damage my professional reputation, intimidate me, and harass me into leaving my position. Although I have understandably had concerns for my personal safety, I will not be intimidated.”
*** These incidents are horrible and I have a great deal of empathy for what Dr. Tyrell went through in Foxboro. Something like this should never happen to anyone in any profession.
JW
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You strong beliefs are not backed up with fact. You have given an (singlular) example. it is clear that there are less position now than last year.
It is also clear that no one got just a 2% raise in the present contract. I have given evidence of this. The lowest increase I have been able to find is 4%.
While the Debt Service for schools is a factor is clearly is not the only factor. Local Aid is down - by a lot. New growth is down - by a lot. We are losing reserved funds - by a lot.
The contract was negotiated by two parties; hence the term. They both worked to give those salary boosts the town could ill afford. the both share the blame for lost jobs. One shoudl accept their own advice.
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Hi TruthSeeker,
You are correct. Those at the very top see a bit over 4%. (for example, .0404)
The bulk of the increases vary with step and education. I am sorry to cause some confusion but the Contract is tricky. I am sure it was meant to be that way.
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OH one more thing. There is more look at other than pure numbers here, which this profile misses. Mass Teachers all get paid based on Steps so It just may be that the Hull now has a younger teacher base and the other towns do not. Remember the high school alone has had a massive turnover rate the past 5 years or so. Also this does not take into account Total compensation. I believe there is an argument to made that we are very much in line with those figures.
SO I would say some more research needs to be done on compensation before using one statistic to justify your claims.
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Okay, the superintendent makes what 139K? Let's cut her salary back to 100K, just for kicks.
Does that solve our problems? Would we be in a more severe spot if we had a new superintendent? Who would come to a community that has cut 3 yrs running?
Let's hit the Town Manager while we are at it. Count your blessings that he is here. Is he overpaid? Cut him by 20K, does it solve our problems? No. In fact, I remember thinking that I would pay anything to move Mr. McCabe along to get Lemnios back.
Times are tough folks. But there are somethings that we must pay for.
The bigger problem is that our town might very well be unsustainable. No business tax base, so it all falls on us. How long can it last?
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All of these POVs from people called Anonymous make it difficult to respond, but I agree with the one who says cutting Tyrell's and Lemnios's salaries won't gain us anything and will lose a great deal. I also dispute Mr. Wholey's statistics. You can't compare teacher salaries that way. As Common Sense notes, we could have a younger teacher field while other towns have more veterans making more money. The only fair way is to compare the contracts and then Hull teachers are demonstrably fairly compensated. Further, they get way better benefits, even with the jump in health care premiums, than other towns. Hull pays 75% of health insurance now, down from 90% just last year. Other towns pay 50%. This is real money that the teachers union never wants to add into salary comparisons. I'm not saying they're not worth their money, I'm just saying that if we're all supposed to be in this together, you'll have to find a more compelling argument for a $1.9 million dollar override than this, Jack. And ps, you don't live here so we don't care what you think we should spend in taxes.
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time for 50/ 50 on insurance for all
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Schools are funded with federal money and I paid my fair share of Federal taxes. As for your statement, "we don't care what you think we should spend in taxes."
Who, may I ask is we? Not only do you hide behind this blog w/o the courage to submit your name, but you need how many people to hold you up? Who is we? You cannot even speak for yourself and I will discuss the data with you or anyone else anytime. You and all of your WE collection always refuse to discuss the facts.
Come out of your closet, be a man about it. Disclose your name and stop behaving so cowardly w/your attacks on me.
Who are you? And better yet when do you want to discuss the facts?
Jack Wholey
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To Tattletale and your entry dated 1/22/2010 at 9:52 AM.
I did not receive a response to my entry that addressed your, "We don't care what you think." entry.
Don't hide now. Respond. I am interested as to whether you will submit your name.
Jack Wholey
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Tattletale,
All the statistics seem to indicate that Hull teachers are paid at rates below the average. You state that they are "demonstrably fairly compensated." Is it safe to assume a that comparison demonstrates this? Was one done? Or were you just using rhetoric? Which is OK, but I am trying to get some actual information. Does anyone have it?
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The new young teachers are paid lower than surrounding towns. Older ones are paid same or more after the last contract. The union has an eat the young mentality....pension padding
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To Anonymous:
Many people that receive a pension from teaching etc.. still are having a difficult time keeping up with the bills.
Teachers pay anywhere from 8-12% of their yearly salary towards their pension. If you teach for 35 years and you retire at age 62, you will receive 80% of the average of your highest three years.
About 4 years ago, two 33-35 year teaching veterans retired from the Hull school district. They were making about $58,000 at the time. If your last three years are $56K, $57K, and $58K your average is $57K. Your pension is 80% of $57K or $45,600. This is after 33-35 years teaching. Out of your pension you pay health insurance and taxes and you are not eligible for social security. If you paid into social security for years whatever you paid into that is lost even though it was money that you worked for and earned.
No matter how much you make when you begin your career, your retirement is based on the highest three years and yes some teachers will coach or receive other stipends at the end of their career to add to their pension but what is wrong with that?
If you want to talk about padding pensions, I'll give you some information on Tyrell's recent increase in in cash right in the middle of her contract thanks to the sc and Kevin Richardson. When you see her contract, you will not believe what our sc is giving her and this is with a top heavy administrative support staff at her $1,200,000 office at the Jacobs.
Jack W.
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Perhaps I'm missing something, but please explain how the "younger" teachers getting underpaid is the union eating its young? Isn't it the admin. and SC not paying them enough? It appears misplaced to blame the union for the town's unwillingness to adequately pay its teachers, young or old.
By the way, age has nothing to do with with rate of pay. Teachers are paid based on education and experience, so you could have a less experienced teacher with more education making more than a teacher with more years of experience.
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To Walter:
You are right regarding the teacher salaries. For example, some teachers can come into a school system with only a few years teaching experience and a bachelors degree and still be started at a higher step level. This depends on school's need in that area the reputation of that applicant and other factors.
It is also true that a first year teacher can receive permanent teacher status within their first year. They might not have to wait until the first day of their 4th year of teaching.
An example might be when a bilingual special needs teacher comes into your school district and receives permanent status because the administration does not want to lose this teacher. Another example might be an excellent science teacher or math teacher that you want to keep in your district. You might offer that person tuition reimbursement, permanent status and a relatively high step.
Mr. Lidington came into the system with very high credentials but minimal public school teaching experience. He was wanted by the district and I presume rightfully so.
If a district is in desperate need of highly qualified science teachers, that district might offer varying incentives to attract and keep highly qualified science teachers, Latin teachers, or computer technology teachers/programers. There are variables to consider and Hull should be thinking of ways to attract and keep qualified teachers just as other school districts' do.
JW
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Walter,
you miss the fact that age does play into things (generally) Teacher pay is based on steps. The longer you are there the higher your pay. Then you add into this eduction and the rate go up further. There is more than one factor here. AND can we all stop talking about Salary as if it is the only compensation factor!!! There is insurance (even 75-25% split is a great deal!) there is really low co-pays, there is time-off, there is sick days (those accrue by the way) (they don't in the private sector), there is Stipends, there is professional development at $25/hr. and more.
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To Walter:
What are you saying?
Are you saying that the teaching profession is a good career choice because of the benefits, the summer vacations, the stipends etc..?
Are you saying that time on the job (age) is a factor when calculating salary?
Teacher salary, in Hull, has been noted by NEASC as an area of concern. NEASC expects the Hull school district to raise the Hull teacher salary to become more closely aligned with other school districts.
Tyrell has stated that increasing teacher salary is a key point in her goals in preparing for the NEASC visit in 2011.
Teaching is not an easy job. Many think it is because of the summer vacation etc.. but, the job is difficult. Give it a try and substitute teach for a couple of days. Get in there and try substituting middle school students. It is not an easy career choice.
JW
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Why would you assume anything.
Might it be that CommonSense or Walter has indeed taught before? Maybe so, maybe not.
Be care in assuming anything. Cause you know what happens when you assume anything?
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Your generalization about the "private sector" is untrue. There are plenty of private sector jobs that have far better compensation packages than teachers, including full disability and health insurance, generous vacation pay and accrued sick days as well huge bonuses,vehicle allowances, mileage etc. In fact, I know a plumber in the private sector who is a high school dropout who has a far more generous compensation package than any teacher with a Master's degree in the Commonwealth of Mass!
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The ONLY thing I generalized with the private sector was the Sick Days accrual.
Beyond union jobs, I know of no examples of sick days that accrue and paid out at retirement.
Sick day accrual is not the norm.
from HTA contract...
A teacher shall accrue sick leave at the rate of one and one-half (1 1/2) days for each month of service of the school year, and credited on the last day of each school month up to a maximum of fifteen (15) days per year. Unused sick leave days earned in the preceding school years will accumulate up to a maximum of two hundred and ten (210) days.
When a teacher retires they are paid $75 for each used sick day up to a maximum of 75 days.
Most people in the private sector are afforded sick days when they need them. For example, typical benfits for sick days are granted 5-10 days of sick days per year (if needed) they don't accrue and are not meant only to be used when you are sick. For long term illness employees typically pay for Long Term disability. Plus if a teacher uses no sick days they are given a bonus of $250.
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I know of several people in non-union, private sector jobs where sick time accrual is the norm. The reason for this is in the event of surgery, or some long-term illness, the employee retains salary and his or her job. Many teachers also purchase long-term disability insurance.
Each district determines its own policies on number of days that can be accumulated, payout at retirement (which is really a fairly recent addition to teacher contracts, to my knowledge), and the few who offer incentive for using no sick days in a school year, as you have described. In years where teachers have accepted no raises in new contracts (yes, it happens, even in Hull), these benefits are sometimes offered instead, since most don't require output of funds (how many Hull teachers do you think have used zero sick days in a year? not many for that $250 to add up very much.) Kathleen Reynolds tried to offer 5 personal days per year to teachers, though most were not allowed to use the three they were receiving annually at that time (the super can deny after the first one any year, in most districts).
Though it is common to have accrual of sick days at about 210 days in many school districts, I'm not sure how many offer any buyback upon retirement, or incentives for using no sick days in a year.
Sometimes staff members (especially administrators, in Hull) are not charged for a sick day, yet are not at work on several days a year. Some come in for a few minutes, are allowed to leave for various non-work reasons, and days are not deducted from their totals (sick or vacation days, if administrators). Usually, teachers or staff members who are allowed to do this are the ones who are given priveleges by administrators that others don't get (for various reasons). If most teachers expected this treatment, they would be censured rather than rewarded with time off that could lead to a bonus for not using a sick day thoughout the year.
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Truthseeker is correct. From what I have read about the benefits that are tied to jobs, it was always the case that it was cheaper to give benefits and the give pay raises. Group health insurance used to be inexpensive so employers would offer that in lieu of raises. I posit that if you dded up the cost of all those benefits the workers would vote to take the cash to be able to spend it how they wish. Unfortunately for the employers, the cost of health insurance has skyrocketed and now they want to portray it like the workers are being greedy. How lame for people to not be able to see through this!
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Not sure where you get this information.
I know of very few people in Non Union Private sector jobs that accrue sick days. and hold on to them year in and year out.
I know folks that accrue sicks days per year to a maximum based on hours of work.
for example, some friends of mine (yes, I have a few) can take sick time when they accrue during the year. the accrual would be for each X amount of hours you received 1 sick day. If the sicks days are not used then they are lost. IS this what you meant, because that is a different type then the HTA contract.
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I guess you must be talking about the lower level private sector jobs. People in upper management have benefits packages that lowly teachers and public employees only dream about. Surely you've heard about the huge bonuses and such benefits in the private sector?
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Not all the stats show this. Only one stat does. It is not accurate to show comparisons of salary without the same comparisons of Steps and who is on various steps in the towns being compared.
a straight mean is not statistically sound. When measuring more that one variable the Weighted average is best.
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To Tattletale:
Jack Wholey
ACCREDITATION AT HHS
NEASC, & the Commission On Public Secondary Schools, reviewed the Pre-Self-Study Report, submitted by the district’s administrators, & continued the school’s accreditation. HHS is scheduled for an evaluation visit in 2011.
Administration’s Response to NEASC
---For the last two years, the superintendent has personally conducted exit interviews w/departing staff. The data that was collected has underscored what was previously suspected: that the main reason for staff leaving Hull is salary. This information has led to the superintendent’s KEY GOAL of raising the teacher salaries to be competitive w/neighborhood district salaries. --- June 2008
Administration claims many changes at HHS? The following are the changes reported to the Commission On Public Secondary Schools?
1) For 3 years, curriculum maps were written for all courses & all academic levels
2) The science curriculum is aligned at the middle school & HS?
3) The fine arts dept. has Ceramics, Graphic & Commercial Art, & Music Tech?
4) The social studies dept. added Sociology & Law classes?
5) TV Production, Computer Repair, Library Information Services are taught
by computer systems tech & library media personnel?
6) The math dept. added Trigonometry?
7) Science & Engineering added courses: Design Tech. (CAD), Engineering Tech,
Power-Energy & Fabrication Tech, physical science & Marine Science?
8) Virtual HS (VHS) added for student learning?
9) Grade Quick fully integrated into all schools?
10) The Business Education Dept. took a course, “From Disruptive to Self Disciplined Strategies.” Next will be “Hi-Fi" High School Finance-Literacy.”
11) A Technology Committee is in place?
12) A three yearlong Technology Plan has been completed?
13) As a member of Virtual HS, 2 staff taught Virtual HS Courses
14) Allows for courses from Pre-Veterinary Medicine to AP Physics?
15) HH w/an excellent AP Program w/six courses in Math, English, Science, & History?
16) HHS has a well-developed Honors Program w/rigorous standard for admission?
17) HHS uses the Pathways Program for mentoring new teachers?
18) HHS guidance dept. w/new internship program, entitled “Foot In The Door.”
19) Winnebago library system crashed/all data was lost. HH is updating the system?
20) Internship “Foot In The Door” is expanding w/the Boston business Community?
21) Journalism & Commercial Art courses help the Wave Publishing class that puts out the school newspaper?
22) The Follow-Up Program Committee (?) at HHS oversees 7 sub-committees:
Mission & Expectations, Curriculum, Instruction, Assessment, Leadership, School Resources, & Community Resources
I wonder if these changes are accurate.
Jack Wholey
PS. The problem is with administrative costs, instructional support costs, PPE, patronage appointments, cronyism, attorneys’ fees, losing out on student activity accounts and not submitting cash gifts into the school department general fund.
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to who ever said that they are glad to have Lemnios back should have their head examined. our tax money is like a drug to them and the more we give the more they will want. he is the root of all that is bad here with his closed door meetings and secretly secured fat ass contracts. forget throwing tea into the water I want to throw the school committee lemnios and his girlfriend joan off the pier.
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Jack Wholey
To Tattletale:
Where are you? Are you there?
For someone to submit such a comment regarding the Hull Teachers’ Association & their leader is a cheap shot, especially when they hide their identity. (Probably a Republican)
The HTA President comes from a family of teachers. Her sister taught in Hull & is now teaching in another school district. That school district is very happy to have her because she happens to be an excellent teacher. Hull let her go & in the process lost thousands of dollars in attorneys’ fees in a settlement for wrong doings.
Their mom taught in Hull for over 30 years. (Attorneys fees $240K/one year)
Four years ago, the average salary for the Hull teacher was $47,000. It is about time that the Hull teacher received a raise. The #1 reason Hull has such a high turnover is their salaries.
The Union had already negotiated their contract. The HTA could not & would not break that Agreement.
Example:
Agreement between the Boston SC & the Boston Teachers Union, Local 66, AFT, MFT, AFL-CIO (“Union)
-The terms & provisions of the parties’ collective bargaining agreement shall continue in full force & effect from September 2006-2010. -
Do you think that the Boston Teachers Union, Local 66, AFT, MFT, AFL-CIO, (“Union”) would vote for a salary freeze in the midst of their Agreement? That is like asking “The Teamsters” to give back their raises.
Even Tyrell disclosed, in the recent NEASC report that salary was the #1 reason the Hull teacher leaves this district. In this NEASC report, Tyrell stated that she had personally conducted exit interviews w/departing staff & that her key goal was to raise teacher salaries to be competitive with surrounding district salaries.
Why attack the HTA?
The HTA President has conducted herself w/pride & dignity during her four years as President. She is a class act & always presents her case in a professional manner. The HTA should be grateful for their President & the way she represented their membership, during these difficult times.
Needless to say, she has not received the same professionalism from certain sc members. She has been subjected to rude, obnoxious, verbal attacks during a negotiation mtg. The superintendent, Ms. Tyrell, was sitting right there along w/several other sc members & nothing was said or done.
Now, I ask you. Is that the way our elected officials should communicate w/members of the community?
The teachers are not the problem. The problem is w/the superintendent & the sc.
Jack Wholey
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I met a teacher and when I told her where I lived, She said in a pitying tone of voice, "Oh, too bad, those people don't value education..."
She teaches on the North Shore and had never been to Hull before.
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Just goes to show that teachers can be as ignorant and classless as anyone else. She's never even been here, but condemns an entire community? I hope you set her straight. I sure would have (and I am the mother of a teacher).
The people of Hull are not uncaring and they are not stupid. They voted for a $35 million schools renovation project even though this town has no commercial base to offset residential property taxes. What they got in return was a $57 million [or so] debt on top of their regular tax burden.
Lots of people are out of work. Their houses are being foreclosed. [Check out the legals in the Times. These are your neighbors who are losing their homes.] Don't disparage these people for admitting they cannot afford phase I [$1.9 million] of this override, which is just for the schools. Don't think that the library, police, and fire don't need more money, too and won't be asking for it. And have you checked out the Senior Center? That place is in serious need of renovation. Town hall? It's crumbling and water runs down the inside walls when it rains. It's not only our children who deserve better. So do our seniors. So does the entire tax-paying community; we don't get decent roads, or trash pickup, or recycling. We just get a huge tax bill and a massive amount of disrespect from people who think they have the right to determine our priorities and are rude and sarcastic when you don't agree with them. Most people in Hull, like the rest of the country right now, are doing the best they can. The last thing this town really needs is another year of divisiveness over an override, but that's where we're heading, seemingly.
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Here, Here!!!
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You failed to address the issue: Hull's reputation around the entire state.
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One ignorant person shoots off her mouth about Hull and you now surmise that “the entire state” agrees with her? Most people in Massachusetts don't even know where Hull is, probably, never mind whether or not we “value education.” Since I have lived here for more than 35 years, I think I know more about our neighbors and what kind of people they are than your North Shore example, teachyourchildren. While I couldn't care less what outsiders say about our town, I am concerned that you do. I am sensing that you are ambivalent about living here. That's too bad because Hull is terrific. It's beautiful and its people are genuine. Of course, it's not for everyone. Snobs, for example, really don't fare well here and don't seem to stay long. It's so hard to balance that chip on one's shoulder while keeping one's nose in the air...
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You should care, you really should care what other people think about our town and how it is run and perceived by educators. Your vehemence makes me think you really do care. A touch insecure about living here yourself?
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To Susan, thank you for being a voice of reason. People became angry with me last year when I supported the override. And I'm sure others will be angry with me this year when I do not support it. I am now happy that it didn't pass last year. Clearly, throwing money at these people who are not competent enough to manage a lemonade stand isn't the answer. We, being the hard working and caring residents of Hull have not gotten what has been promised from the past. I do not believe the answer lies in higher taxes but a better accounting of what is currently being spent. My husband and I have re-adjusted our finances twice in the last 18 months and after this last tax bill must do so again. If Stefanie Peters and Kristen Evens thinks that I am going to feed my children frozen food so they can pad Tryell and Leminos's contracts they are sadly mistaken. If the state of education in Hull is not good we must look at the common denominator - the leadership. Change the leaders and we will change the management of our finances and the direction of our beautiful town. During the 21 Century Schools presentation, Chris Olivirie stated that Hull is handicapped geographically. Is that his excuse for his lack luster performance as a selectman? I suggest that it is handicapped by him and a couple of his colleagues who have no personal or professional business sense or community interest beyond what the position can do for them. As I have previously stated, we will finish out this year in the Hull school system but have enrolled our children in private schools for next year. That extra money that would have gone to local events and charities will be used to pay for it. It's a sad state of affairs for all.
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$1.9M does not appear to be the correct number for the overide request either.
I watched some of last tuesdays FPC meeting, and this overide request was discussed. As indicated by TM at the School Comm presentation there would have to be some other "fixed cost" costs included with this overide.
Well, during last tuesdays FPC meeting Lemnios indicated that a more "realistic number" for the overide would fall in the "general vicinity" of $2.2M to $2.5M, I don't think he had calculated the actual number yet.
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I have been following all of the discussion about the schools and I can't say that I have a clear picture of what the answer is.
Mr. Whouley puts out a lot of facts and figures, but what do they mean? If he is correct, there seems to be a pattern that stretches back over years and years, with past superintendants and committee people. Could they all be everything wrong? Are they all corrupt and stealing money? Why else would they get involved? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
So what do we do? Fire the superintendant? Replace the school committee and all the administrators and start all over? Fire all the higher paid teachers and hire new ones who make less money?
None of these things will solve this problem. I have watched school committee meetings and I have seen that positions have been cut and hundreds of thousands of dollars has been cut from the budget.
I don't like the idea of paying more taxes. I don't think I can afford it (or I should say that I can think of other things in my life to do with the money). But I also don't want my kids going to a school system that keeps cutting back, either.
If we want better schools and a better reputation for our town, we have to figure out how to pay for it. I would rather see the money go to hiring teachers rather than paying for sports, but I know there are a lot of people that put a value on sports and band programs. We all make choices and have to respect that there is a balance. What's good for my kids isn't the same as what's good for your kids.
So, instead of the back and forth and hateful carping, can somebody please tell me if it is possible to re-do the school budget and get back on track without an override? I mean real facts and figures so I can make a real decision. How much money is wasted? Where should it be moved to?
I just did this with my household budget. There wasn't as much wiggle room as I thought there would be. I think we will find the same thing with the school budget.
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I have the selectmens meeting on and Chris O is talking about being able to keep his kids in school. that stiff doesn't even pay his taxes! Phil the manager is talking about his kid who is in private school and lives in Natick. can't we elect someone who lives in town AND pays their bills. what has this town come to?
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Ya mean between his yawns?? And if I read the local paper right, taxes ain't the only thing he ain't paying on time.
And did ya also see the FPC presentation part about budget recommendations where it was "assumed" we have the maximum 2 1/2 percent tax increase every year.
Lets see, paying for the school projects; and aren't we coming to the years we pay the most for these projects??, having the maximum allowable tax increase every year, Hull Light making an even larger "P.I.L.O.T." payment, which will guarantee our electric rates go up again, and trying to get an escalating number 2 1/2 overide pushed thru(money bet we see it on the ballot come may), will just make Hull a totally economically unfeasable town for many to live in.
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What reason did he give for not being able to keep his kids in school?
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What reason did he give for not being able to keep his kids in school?
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Chris meant that if the taxpayers don't come up with more money for the schools programs will be cut and he cant keep his kids in this system. the taxpayer pays for his bad debts on his 2 bankruptcies 2 homes closed on and he is screwing us for health insurance as a no show selectmen. this bum has gotten more than enough from this taxpayer. this guy has no shame.
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Does anyone know if the Superintendent is correct in stating that Hull expends a smaller proportion of its total spending on education than most towns? In other words, a smaller piece of the pie? She said she was going to try to increase this proportion. What do you all think?
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Well Walter- according to TM at last tuesdays BoS meeting the school departments "piece of the pie" for FY11 was 58% of the total budget, seems to be an awful big piece of the pie already. A number I'm sure can be cut up anyway somebody wants it to look.
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Not sure the Town Managers figures should be relied on without verification. Don't forget that he has an agenda to get more money for the town side of government so that he has control over it. He has no control over the school's budget.
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I don't know Walter, this number was a part of his FY11 town budget presentation to the BoS, if there's number lying going on in that we got bigger problems than just the school dept budget.
Same report lists the All Departments budget as $21.468M dollars with the school depts as $12.500M dollars
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I just went to the School Dept. Website. In FAQ #1 it says that the percentage of the school's budget is "about 35%" of the whole town budget. If the School Committee, the Selectmen and the Advisory
Committee had any courage, they would put the Town Manager and the Superintendent in the same room, on video, and demand an explanation of this glaring discrepancy before they dare to place an over ride on the warrant! Otherwise it should be defeated.
see:www.town.hull.ma.us/Public_Documents/HullMA_SchoolComm/fy10budgetinfo/5FAQ%27s1.pdf
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Where'd you get the 21.4M number for the total budget? I think its more like $35.m.
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It is very helpful to see the comparison data in the teacher's salary report at the top of this page (and how poorly our teacher's are paid. Does anyone have comparative information on fire, police, DPW and town manager salaries?
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I'm sorry to be repeating myself but I am one of the people struggling to make sense of what is going on and I still don't see a lot of answers being given to help us solve our problems.
What I do see is a lot of people who seem to have personal grievances with the school committee or the superintendant or others in town like the selectman and town manager. Like it or not, these are the people in charge and we are going to have to vote on this budget soon, so complaining about how bad a job you think they are doing really doesn't help us right now.
Mr. Whouley and others are making a big deal out of the teachers contract, but from what I remember reading in the local paper, the teachers union negotiated a contract that increased the salary levels of Hull's teachers because they recognized that they were paid less. That's why the teachers didn't give up their raises last year, right? So they could keep getting closer to what other towns are paying. So I think it's not a valid argument to say that teachers are underpaid.
Also at the meetings about the school department last year they outlined all the positions and their duties, and I didn't see a lot of extra people. In fact they cut the vice principal at the middle school, which I don't agree with.
The school budget last year got cut by $800,000. I saw the figures when we were voting at town meeting. So they've had to make cuts and have taken away programs like foreign languages and social studies. This is bad.
From what I've heard, if the override doesn't pass, everything will be the same next year as it is now. I don't want to see that happen, but that override is a lot of money.
But I don't want to see our kids get shortchanged either. If there are things you can suggest to change the budget and bring back some of these programs without the override, then let's hear them.
That's what I think we should be talking about. We need to make decisions that we are comfortable with, and the only way to do that is to think about real ways to make changes. All the rest is just background noise.
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Dear Hullonian,
Why do I get the feeling that I am trying to communicate with Kevin Richardson? Could this be KR?
I mention this because I cannot understand why you are having a problem calculating expenditures from my recent entry dated 1/28/2010 at 9:30 PM.
The sc allocates $724 per pupil for administrative costs. Comparing these PPE to the other school districts mentioned in the entry show that Hull spends close to $400 per pupil on administrators. You multiply that $400 X 1200 students=$480,000
What don't you understand? Hull is too top heavy and the sc has no problem with that as long as their children receive their services at the Jacobs.
Now, take the PPE for Instructional Leadership staff. Hull spends $1,734 per pupil on instructional Leadership employees while the average from the 8-10 other districts shown in my entry is about $650. Take Hull's $1,734-$650=$1,084 that the sc allows the supt. to spend.
Take 1,200 students in the Hull district and multiply that by $1,084 calculates to approximately $1,284,000 the Hull pays for these Instructional Leaders. If we used the average PPE for this category Hull would have plenty of money to run one of the best high school's in the area.
Please do the math.
You had mentioned in one of your previous entries that you wanted REAL Facts so that you could make a REAL Decision.
Please tell me the difference between REAL FACTS and FACTS. The facts are right before your eyes and they have been their for the whole town to see for years. Why do you think Hingham, Cohasset, Hanover, Duxbury, Norwell and any other towns in the south shore cannot help but laugh when they see how our town handles money. They run good school systems why can't Hull?
The reason is because of the inept sc that wants to take care of their own cronies and their own family.
Jack Wholey
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Mr. Wholey (sorry that I spelled your name wrong before):
I am not Mr. Richardson or anyone on the school committee. I am a parent and I try to attend meetings but when I can't go I talk to others who go to them.
What I mean by 'REAL FACTS' and 'REAL DECISIONS' is that we all have to make a choice on this budget in the spring.
I've read your math. And I wonder about why those figures are so different in Hull. But what I mean by a 'REAL DECISION' is this: Is it possible to just reduce the administrators spending next year so that the percent compares with other towns? I don't think we can.
And last year I saw the descriptions of the jobs done by the assistant superintendant and the special ed director and some of the others who get grants, etc. I didn't see jobs that looked like they could be cut. Which ones are you saying are not needed?
What I am trying to understand is if we apply your math and spend so much less on "instructional leadership" what will that really amount to in programs? Are you saying cut more administrators? They already let go the vice principal at the Memorial and I think that was wrong. Can they just pay the principal's less next year? They must have contracts.
So what I mean by 'REAL DECISIONS' is whether what you are proposing is realistic to be put in place for this budget vote.
I also do not doubt that your facts are 'REAL' (maybe I typed that wrong) but if they are so out of line, isn't there an auditor or a state overseer who would step in and say that this school department isn't spending its money right? Sometimes I see in the news how the state auditor puts out a report in other towns. Wouldn't they get in trouble if they were so far out of whack?
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Good morning Hullonian!
These are excellent questions.
First, Hull needs a certified business administrator. Hull has not had a certified business administrator for will over 10 years, if ever. This person has to be certified by the department of education. Tyrell has recently (within the past 5 months) hired the former business manager from Duxbury public schools. He is now retired and works 20% of that of a full-time business manager. Hull needs a full-time certified business manager.
Now, in 2006, the school department spent $1,095,694 for instructional leadership personnel. In 2007, Hull increased this amount be 29.9% or $1,422,694. In 2008, Hull increased this amount by 49.5% from 2007 and almost 200% from 2006. The amount for instructional leadership was $2,127,266.
So, whatever explanation the special needs director explained to you has increased significantly from 2006-2008 when some say the school department has had their budget cut for the past several years.
If the school budget has been cut wht has the instructional leadership total increased from $1,095,597 in 2006 to $2,127,266 in 2008?
Cuts in guidance staff, the business department, the computer tech courses, industrial tech courses, certified social studies teachers at the middle school, computer technology staff at the middle school, foreign language teachers, & extra-curricula activities.
A list of what is paid in the instructional leadership line item should be looked at and I am going to request this list from Tyrell.
As for audits, the school department is audited by an independent auditor, CPA, Ray Kasperiouxz from Cohasset and the,department of the EQA report overy several years. There should also be an annual audit of student activity accounts.
As for the state auditor, they can come in and audit the school's books but many times and it for bidding contracts.
I think that I should present a case to the state auditor regarding the HPS.
Keep up the question, you are a parent the is getting involved and that is a good thing.
Jack Wholey
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Just for the record - either number can be defended. The numer TM uses includes all costs above school operations (i.e. - Town Accountant, Insurance, Pensions, other town employees who are partially funded through the School budget, etc.) The Superintendent is stating the costs of the School operational direct costs. Both are correct - both are defensible. Unfortunately the politics get in the way of clarity.
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Appreciate the effort to clarify, Iggy. I'm now confused as to how both percentages can be correct? Especially when both sides have such interests. Perhaps Mr. Wholey is correct and we need an objective 3rd party to give the people a report before we vote on an override. However, one would hope that the Fin Com would take a stand on this as to whose figures are correct!
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I'm just going by straight departmental budgets and for FY11 that total is $21,468,716.00 Dollars, of which the school dept gets $12,5000,000.00 dollars. Police is $2.312M , Fire $2.664M.
In FY11 there's another slightly over $10M in other expenses in the FY11 budget, I don't know enough about it to break down what in that over $10M "other expenses" is attributable to the school dept.
Like Iggy said, its the politics of spinning numbers and putting 'em together in the way the party wants 'em to look that muddles up the pond.
So, if in a total DEPARTMENT BUDGET of $21.468M the School Depts "cut" is $12.500M, that sure looks like well over 50% to me.
At the Big "21st century school" presentation the SC asked for a $1.9M overide. At that same meeting I think it was Blackall asked TM about what other "fixed costs" would be incorporated with this 2 1/2 overide request. TM said there would be additional cost but at that patricular second in time it hadn't been factored in.
At an FPC meeting couple weeks back TM said the number, overide request plus associated fixed costs would more "realistically" be someplace betweeen $2.2M & $2.5M. Well; hells bells,thats someplace between $300K & $600K MORE than what was asked for, WHY wasn't those "fixed costs" included in the orginal number.
Lets also remember, this is an overide request. And its on there till we vote to remove it. When ya think that would happen????
Lets also remember FY 11 budget,and I imagine all budgets in the near future, will include the wording "The Property tax levy is increased by the statutory limits as set by proposition 2 1/2".
And what about paying for the school(s) renovation projects and increasing P.I.L.O.T. payments from Sewer & Electric, and we gotta pay for them windmills.
So; all this combined, WHEN does paying more and more and more become counterproductive towards the viability of living in Hull?? I personally think we're there already
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I would strongly suggest that citizens attend the AB meetings over the next couple of months. The budget is in our hands and we will be asking such questions as we always do. Most nights, we are at the meeting alone with maybe one or two other people.
Most of the 10M is in in debt, insurance, pension, reserve fund and capital improvement buckets.
The Windmill costs are outside of the Budget. Those are financed through our electric bills. (though bills are a cost) Just think the discussion should stay focused.
As of right now there is NO override question. Only A REQUEST by the SC. This does NOT mean it is a fait de complis. Only the BOS can put an Override in any of its forms on the ballot. And ONLY the Ballot can enact one. So lets not get worked up over it prematurely.
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David Clinton states, "I strongly suggest that citizens attend AB meetings over the next couple of months."
Why not have your meetings on the local Cable TV? These meetings are of the utmost importance to residents in Hull. If all of your meetings were televised, you and your colleagues would be providing a great service to the residents.
Why hide the meetings from the public whereas senior citizens and others, that have a difficult time getting to meetings could watch and listen to the budget process.
Can you, or better yet, would you please explain why your meetings are not televised?
How about a weekly Cable broadcast whereas you might be able to educate the Hull residents on the language and state of affairs of the financial standing of the Town.
You did a nice job with your Blog entry explaining some of the process. It would be an excellent service if you and some of the other advisory board members would conduct weekly panel discussions that might help the residents understand better where their money goes.
Jack Wholey
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Do you get hull cable in quincy?
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No!
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Meetings are not televised as the cost is more than budgeted for our board. We do televise a meeting when we expect Standing Room Only numbers in attendance due to high interest in particular agenda items.
We have discussed this issue before a number of times in meetings and feel that the cost is too great to televise each meeting. You have even been in attendance and asked the AB this same question.
We have published information about the process and terminology in the Hull Times for the past couple of years.
The more citizens that can attend the AB meetings the better!!! I wanted to know the process, so I started attending the meetings. The next thing I knew I was writing a letter to request appointment. I love to see fresh new faces at the AB meetings.
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I like TM numbers for the simple reason that general govt and Schools are included in the comparison.
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It appears that either the Town Manager or the Superintendent is using some misdirection (at best). One would hope that the Advisory Board would be able to clear this up. There are generally accepted accounting practices, so wouldn't it be standard practice to look to other towns and see how they report? (I know, I know, Hull is not like other towns...) Then we could tell who is trying to spin the truth. I urge everyone to go to the school's site and look at FAQ #1. There are spending comparisons with other towns. If those are not accurate, the School Committee should be told that the information be taken down and retracted. We need to demand clarity and transparency from our officials or it really is our own fault for being easily led (or misled) sheep.
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Mr.Clinton, I would like to attend the AB meetings. Can you tell me when and where? Is it a regular monthly meeting?
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They are not a set schedule, but will be duly posted. The next one should be mid February. Generally, They are Monday nights. After the next meeting the AB should settle on a schedule leading up to Town Meeting.
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A regular schedule would help with attendance. Can I find the meeting date in the Hull Times?
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As a Town Board, The town website is the best source.
AB next meeting has been listed there.
Feb 22. Also can link to town website from this blog.
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To: Dave C. "For me, we must budget what the town can afford."
Tyrell and Richardson Sign Superintendents' Raise Behind Closed Doors,No date, No 3rd Party Witness/Signature, October 27, 2008
Highlights of Initial Contract: July 1, 2007
1) July 1, 2007-June 30, 2010 w/Committee option to June 30, 2012
2) Signed by Kevin Richardson, Kathleen Tyrell, Marcia Bohine, Town Accountant
3) Tyrell’s salary, $135,000 adjusted every year based on sc evaluation
4) Yearly adjustments (raise) not more than $5,000
Re-Negotiated Contract (10/27/08)
1) July 1, 2008-June 30, 2012
2) Signed by Richardson & Tyrell w/o a date or 3rd party signature
3)) Salary increase to $139,500 from $135,000
4)) Every year Tyrell is up for a raise depending on her evaluation
5) $5,050 shall be paid to Tyrell to an insurance company of her choice for an annuity contract consistent with M.G.L. Chapter 71 Section 37B & Section 403(b) of the IRS code. This is in addition to & not deducted from Tyrell’s salary.
6) ‘The Committee wishes to recognize the value of service provided by the Superintendent over time. Therefore, the parties agree on an annual longevity schedule as follows as part of the compensation:
$3,000 commencing the 4th year
$3,000 commencing the 5th year
$3,000 commencing the 6th year
7) $1,000 to Tyrell for unvouchered expense allowances per year
8) $2,500 additionally shall be given to Tyrell for the cost & attendance of one national conference & two state conferences; receipts are required for this payment
9) Sick Days, 15/ year, & unused sick days are cumulative year to year,
10) Payback for unused sick days after 5 years of service at 50% of value =@ $24,000
11) Vacation Leave 30 days exclusive of district & legal holidays each year
12) Vacation Leave reimbursement of ten days each year paid at superintendents’ rate, this calculated to another $6,000 per year at the end of each year
13) Personal Leave: Tyrell can take three (3) days personal leave & may take reasonable compensatory leave, ‘In recognition of the nature of her position.’
Additionally, Tyrell is entitled to bereavement leave as per sc policy.
*** The terms of this agreement shall supersede & prevail over terms & conditions of any personnel policies of the sc, Town of Hull or votes of Town Meeting.
OBSERVATIONS:
1) On October 27, 2008, went into E. S. for the purposes of discussing collective bargaining w/non-union personnel (Not for negotiating Tyrell’s contract)
2) ‘The Committee & superintendent discussed negotiations regarding the supts.
Contract in executive session. (That was not the reason given for executive session)
3) Tyrell left the room at 8:45 PM
4) The Committee then discussed & voted upon changes to Tyrell’s contract.
5) The executive session minutes did not mention retroactive pay from July 1, 2008.
5) This contract did not have a third party signature or date, just Tyrell & Richardson
6) Where was it signed and who drafted the language?
Something is not right!
JW
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Something is not right! How does the school Com. and the Super get away with this. Who is watching the hen house my guess is the fox. You lost my vote. I am giving my money to the library at least I know they are honest and will do the right thing.
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I have a FEVER for more Wholley!!
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Anonymous:
What does that mean? Is it a good thing or a bad thing?
Jack W
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Amen!!! Keep it coming JACK!
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I just wanted to say that I am enjoying the high level of discourse on this blog! I think this has great potential to be a good source of information for the people and a place where people can freely ask questions.
Thanks to the host and the First Amendment!
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Thanks for being a part of it.
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At the BoS meeting, Selectmen Blackall agrees with the Superintendent that the Town Manager's 58% figure of the budget going to schools is incorrect! Lemnios did not refute Blackall's interpretation, but quickly changed the subject to "outcomes" and criticized the system. Does he have an ax to grind against the system and is that why he gives the inflated numbers?
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The Town Manager also admitted that the 58% figure that he says goes to schools should only be used to compare spending in Hull year to year. He said that these figures are not useful for comparing the spending percentage that he provided should not be used to compare Hull's spending with other towns. Mr. Clinton, I wonder how this will effect your opinion of the Town Manager's numbers? Curious to know?
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I will give an opinion once I see the replay and I complete my review of the budget. I will however give honest feedback. Without actually see and hearing what was said, it would be foolish of me to lend an opinion.
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To Common Sense Entry: 2/2/10 @ 4:53 PM
POI
Mr. Menice worked from 1957 until his retirement in the early to mid 90's taking one day off and that was for a funeral.
As for accruing sick days, in Boston you can receive payment for 40% of your sick days. For example, a fellow teacher accrued over 450 sick days and personnel days over his career. 40% of that total is 180 days. At the time of his retirement, he was making about $370/per day. This calculates to $66,600. He had to take this money in three payments. He received about $22,000 each year for three years.
FYI
The teacher's union established a sick bank policy. If you wanted to participate, you would give one of your sick days to the sick bank. God forbid, that you or any other member of this group became seriously ill and had to use up all your sick time. The committee would vote and approve to take days from the sick bank to help that union member.
There are over 6,000 teachers and most of them would agree to this policy so there might be 6,000 sick days in the bank to help a brother or sister in the union. An excellent policy and one that I think Hull has.
But, in the case of the former principal, Jonathan Ford, he was paid 100% of his accrued sick days and vacation days plus allowed years of service back pay, above and beyond his contractual arrangement the he made with Kevin Richardson.
A nice going away present at the tune of $57,000. Boy, that is a real nice lump sum check. Can anyone out there do anything with a one-time bonus check of $57,000? Ford must have been smiling all of the way to the bank and thanking Richardson and other sc members. I think that was part of their agreement with each other arranged in closed door meetings.
What a sc! Their giving away money to administrators like it is candy. Soon, I will submit the superintendent's contract and the behind closed doors adjustment made to increase her salary from $135,000 to $139,500 along with a $3,000 bonus after 3 years service, another $3,000 for 4 years service, and another $3,000 for 5 years service. This along with a possible $5050 bonus if she receives a passing evaluation from the committee.
Hopefully, the evaluation tool being used by the sc is not made up by the superintendent unlike the last superintendent that made up her own evaluation tool taken from the Five Year Strategic Plan.
Do you remember that Strategic Plan? I wonder what the outcome was of that 5 year Plan that cost the taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars paid to a consultant to tabulate the results of the survey questions sent to parents.
I have to gather the minutes to the executive session meetings when the sc re-nogotiated Tyrell's contract in mid-stream. This is the infamous contract that was signed by Kevin Richardsom w/o a date on it and w/o public scrutiny.
Jack W.
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OK. I just listened to the Replay on HCTV. There was nothing in the discussion that would effect (change) my opinion of the TM numbers. He was very clear in how the numbers stacked up. and also very clear that any measure you choose to look at has flaws.
For me the real question is why aren't we accounting for school expenses as other towns are to try and get the DOE numbers to be more in line with other towns. This knowing that there will still be some discrepancies (outliers) that exist.
For me, we must budget in a way that the town can afford while doing the least harm to ALL departments and the Citizens of the town.
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Walter- did ya watch the whole thing, from where reilly first asked TM to explain the 58/42 split??
TM gave a pretty detailed; and I thought pretty good explanation of how that 58/42 split is derived. And I'M NOT a TM "cheerleader", I just listened to what he said.
Its numbers on a piece of paper,and the 58/42 split is derived from what percentage of the towns DEPARTMENTAL OPERATIONAL BUDGET the school dept gets, its not a "lie", its not "incorrect", out of the FY11 DEPARTMENTAL OPERATIONAL BUDGET for the town of Hull, which is $21.468M Dollars, the School Dept gets $12.500M dollars, sounds like about 58% to me.
There is a little over another $10M dollars in general gov't budget(insurances, pensions,debt, etc.)in the TOTAL TOWN BUDGET, for a grand total FY11 recommended budget of $31.829M dollars.
TM also went on explain how some of those general gov't numbers are also as a benefit to the school dept. And how some of the other town dept budgets also include a component of benefit to the schools. He gave the example of snow removal. Snow removal at the schools is an expense, but its not included in the school depts budget, its included in the town wide snow removal budget. Health Insurance, which is a town wide general budget item, includes the health insurance for the school dept employees, but that expense is not part of the school depts budget.
The 58/42 split is ONLY the part of the school depts day to day OPERATIONAL BUDGET, thats it!!!
TM also went on to explain about what and where other towns may include in what part of what budget.
Far as "outcomes", I took it as TM asking the BoS what was more important, a number on a budget line or the quality and value of education a child attending the Hull Public Schools gets.
And Blackall likes to hear himself talk. I don't particularly disagree with what he says(sometimes), but he very much "frames" what he says to support what he wants to. He wants us to believe the sky is falling in hull because of what some realtor said to him, maybe somebody shoulda checked MLS recent sales to see if that turkey was gonna fly or not. Maybe somebody needs to realize that our school dept AIN'T the only reason home sales in Hull been kinda flat for awhile, at any price.
What TM say about school population, 11% of the towns total population, one of the smallest in Eastern massachusetts??
MY(our)bottom line is this- CAN'T AFFORD to pay anymore taxes in this town. Don't matter what its for, can't afford it.
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I guess your last line closed your mind to the rest of the issues. I agree with you about the taxes. But, I didn't hear any discussion about raising taxes. In my mind, this is about something far more important: honesty in government! What I did see was the town manager using creative accounting to try to show that the school dept gets an out sized share of the budget. He admitted that other towns don't do it that way and that his numbers should not be used to compare Hull's spending on schools or anything else. How can we tell anything from that? Do we know what other towns pay their police, fire, DPW and whether ours is even remotely in line? The answer appears to be no. This has the appearance of a lack of transparency at best and deliberate obfuscation at worst. We must demand better!
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Walter, WHAT do you think this discussion is about?? Its about a presentation titled "21st century schools" from the Hull Public School system that ended with a request to the BoS for a 2 1/2 overide, which is about taxes.
And what "transparency" at you looking for?? These are all numbers on a piece(s) of paper, and its all quite clearly spelled out, for you, me, and any and everybody else to see and read.
The TM; quite clearly I thought, explained and elaborated on the various ways towns can present their budgets and the breakdown of numbers within those budgets to their citizenry, and the way the States DOE presnts it on their website.
I don't recall the TM specifically saying "other towns don't do it this way", I remember it more as "there are multiple different ways for towns to present these numbers", and this is the way that is chosen in this town.
The numbers are all right there, all available for the public to view, and you can interpret, analyze, or extrapolate any information you want from it, in any way you want.
It has QUITE CLEARLY been illustrated MULTIPLE TIMES, and I don't know HOW MANY times TM said it last nite, the 58/42 split number is derived from the various town departments DAY TO DAY OPERATIONAL BUDGET.
Sure, if you use the school depts DAY TO DAY OPERATIONAL BUDGET number against the Towns TOTAL BUDGET number you are going to come out with a smaller percentage split, but; in that case, what will be needed is someone, I would imagine TM and Town Accountant, to go into the remaining General budget and item by item, break out and add from each line item what is attributable to the school dept. And then add that to the school depts DAY TO DAY OPERATIONAL budget, THEN compare it and do a percentage split against the towns TOTAL BUDGET. Doesn't sound like something easy to do.
That means everytime fire or police make a call to the schools that cost is going to have to be figured and added to the school depts budget line.
Everytime the Town DPW plows out or does any other work on the schools that cost is going to have to be figured out and added to the school depts budget line.
Ditto insurances, pensions, unemployment,FICA.
And my mind isn't closed to other issues Walter, don't put words in my mouth that aren't there.
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1. How much is our school budget and what percent of the total town
budget does it represent? How does this compare to neighboring
communities? The FY09 school budget was approved at town meeting for
$12,770,000. This represents about 35% of our total town budget, which is
$35,996,823. In neighboring districts the school budget represents a greater
proportion of the total town budget. It is important to note that school budget
numbers do not reflect health insurance which is carried separately in each
town’s budget.
Schools’ Percentage of Total Town Expenditures – FY09
Town Town
Budget
School
Budget
Schools % of
Total Budget
*Marshfield $71,322,233 $40,479,789 57%
*Scituate $52,948,749 $27,924,142 53%
Hingham $74,056,840 $35,686,037 48%
Norwell $38,876,037 $18,310,749 47%
*Cohasset $39,434,132 $14,316,397 36%
Hull $35,996,823 $12,770,000 35%
(Source: Town Meeting Warrant)
* Awaiting final verification of Warrant
(Above numbers from School Dept. Website)
Why not report it like the rest of the towns as above so that voters can compare? Clearly by accepted standards Hull is pretty low, but by Hull standards we're devoting a large percentage of the budget to the schools. The question is, "Are we shortchanging our students?" I read back to an earlier statment that question whether Hull valued education. If the above numbers are correct, an objective person could conclude,"No." I am not sure of the answer but saying the schools get 58% when it isn't accurate is not helpful and makes this voter want to vote against anything put forth with such tactics.
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WALTER- can you comprehend what others write and the L-E-N-G-T-H-L-Y conversation TM had with the BoS this tuesday past ABOUT THIS VERY ISSUE or are you just so "I'm right and everybody else is wrong" full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes that yer refusing to L-I-S-T-E-N.
What you pasted above is off of the School Depts "FAQ".
Allright, lemme ask you this, lets use Marshfield as an example,do you know what is included in that $40.479M dollar school budget?? Is that the TOTAL BUDGET number for their schools, that includes EVERY CENT that town spends on its schools, or is it;like Hull, just representing the DAY TO DAY OPERATIONAL BUDGET for the schools??
Does Marshfield have more students?? What other "fixed costs" are included in their school dept budget number?? Do their schools have a larger admin staff? WHAT sub-set of numbers relative to operation of their schools do they include in their school depts budget numbers??
I don't know, and I'm willing to bet the Hull School Dept person that did that FAQ didn't know either. I went online and looked at marshfields town budget,and maybe someone more savvy with this stuff than me could find it someplace, but all I could find was a number, with no breakdown of whats included in that number.
And you keep saying that 58% number in Hull "isn't accurate", "lack of transparency", deliberate obfuscation",and "creative accounting", IT ISN'T, that is an accurate number reflecting; out of all the towns departments that get a line item budget, what the School departments share of the total of those all departments DAY TO DAY OPERATIONAL budget is.
And this method of reporting isn't new either, its the same way the budget split has been reported to Hull for at last the last 4 or 5 years.
Lemme put it to you another way- At the end of the 21st century schools presentation the School Dept asked for $1.9M dollar 2 1/2 overide. Well, come to find out couple weeks after the fact, there are other costs associated with that $1.9M dollar overide request that the school dept "forgot" to include in that number, which will appear to bring that overide request number up to someplace between $2.2M dollars to $2.5M dollars.
What, ya think all them SC members, the Super, the members of the 21st century school comm., and those principals didn't know of those "fixed cost" numbers that wouldn't inflate that overide request numbers???
Who is using numbers that aren't "accurate" and "creative accounting"???
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I hate to lower the level of discourse, but since you are being so condescending, I thought it appropriate to state that L-E-N-G-T-H-L-Y is not a word.
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Oh my god, I spelled a werd wrong, what will happen next???
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The statistic cited by the school department and listed by Walter here is not a good comparison in my eyes for a couple of reasons.
First the comparisons are made by proximity to Hull and NOT a peer group or similar districts based on a wide range of data elements.
Secondly, it makes no comparison of student population to the town. This statistic is important when comparing budget items within the town.
(If you have a greater percentage of student population you would rightfully expect to see a higher percentage of budget go to the schools. With that in mind let's look at some meaningful stats to support the Towns budget proposal.
(Town Pop is a close estimate)
Town St pop. Tn pop. Pct
Marshfield 4720 24300 19%
Sctiuate 3241 17800 18%
Hingham 3964 19900 20%
Norwell 2327 9765 24%
Cohasset 1466 7261 20%
Hull 1213 11000 11%
****** The reality is Hull has had low student enrollment for many years now.*******
The operating budget ratio of 58/42 has been cited by TM for many years and this ratio has been kept pretty consistent. That consistency is the real measure of how the town supports all its services. While I would like to see the town offer more services to it's citizens, It is a difficult thing to do gives the revenue sources and debt. These conditions exist. Fighting over the crumbs left behind is only being devisive. My hope is that both the general side and school side of government will continue to work together before, during, and after decisions are made in spending money. We need more transparency in the budgets. The 21st Century schools is a good debate to have. But we also must consider the cost to getting the ideal. As has been stated before, every family has and ideal budget. And every family must then pare down those budgets with the reality of family debt and income year in and year out.
Thanks for reading and having a civil debate.
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Hey Dave,
I should probably identify myself to you so you'll remember who I am. Former "MY NAVY" crew who spent more than a couple hours with you & your Dad aboard patrolling. Live down near Gunrock??
Sorry to hear of your Ma's passing, hows yer Dad doing?? One of the finer people I've ever met
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Thanks for the condolences! We miss you in the Flotilla. Dad is doing well. He is in Kingston still and adjusting to life of his own. Mom and Dad were married 50 years so he has been with her his entire adult life.
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Could there be a correlation between the low student enrollment and having the smallest percentage of spending?
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What are you asking?
There is a correlation. That is the point. The data is the data. Should a smaller percentage of the population take up a larger share of the budget? I am not advocating either way, I am just asking the question. The town (Town Meeting) must decide what programs they wish to pay for; understanding that the services offered to the town are financed with a finite revenue stream.
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This also was in discussion tuesday past at the BoS meeting. Its kind of a general consensus we "probably" have more condos in town than most of these other towns, and I guess the general feeling is condos = fewer students, which is probably more true than not. If I remember correctly several years back, the former asst tax assessor, at a selectmans meeting stated that most of the home sales in Hull at that time were to either "empty nester" types, or those that had past school age children. I know the street we live on there's a couple duplexes and 20 or so year round single family homes and I don't think there's one school aged child living in any of them.
It sure sounds like Blackall is trying to make it sound like homes ain't selling in Hull because of our school systems "LOW" budget numbers.
Could there be a percentage of families with school children looking to buy a place that passed on Hull because of our school system?? Could be, imagine there is. Could be a multitude of other reasons as well, maybe our escalating taxes, the fact that ya get taxed+ cause ya live near the water, terrible roads, collapsing seawalls, private overpriced water, some homes have to be rowed to in a storm, no trash collection, the list could go on and on if ya really wanted to pick at it.
How many that live in Hull W/school age children send 'em off to private school?? Have no idea, do you??
At tuesdays meeting TM said we have one of the lowest school populations in Eastern Mass, and he did say he checked that.
And I STILL see NO PROOF we have "the smallest percentage of spending" unless you absolutely know what is included in every other school depts budget.
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It appears that the discussion on this blog may have influenced the debate at the Selectmen's Meeting this evening. If so, I thank all of the people who put in valuable comments and information. Thanks for keeping the discussion at a high level and not letting it degrade into name calling, etc. like some of the other blogs I've seen. Thanks to the town officials, including Mr. Clinton of the Advisory Board, for taking note of our thoughts!
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THE TAXPAYERS’ MONEY IS FOR THE STUDENTS, NOT FOR SO MANY ADMINISTRATORS WORKING OUTSIDE OF THE CLASSROOM.
SC & ACCOUNTABILITY OF THE ‘OATH OF OFFICE’
Hold the Superintendent Accountable Stop Giving Her Raises & Changing Her Contract Concentrate on the 40 HS Dropouts in Two years Reinstate the Business Department, The Computer Courses & Industrial Technology Classes
The sc, Richardson & Evans especially, should make Tyrell go back to the drawing board & align administrative costs w/other districts. Tyrell should be required to conserve & keep administrative spending to $463 PPE. This would save $313,200.
The sc would then be holding the supt; accountable, instead of renewing her contract, w/raises perks, after only 1 year of service.
DOWNSIZE ADMINISTRATORS & CONSULTANTS
1) Eliminate Mary Merrigan’s consultant job ($15K-$20K)
2) Eliminate Ms. Scribner’s’ position. She has already retired. Supposedly, Ms. Scribner is a computer tech employee yet there is not one computer tech course at HHS.
3) Mr. Donigers’ HH Theatre Arts handled over $327K from 2005 to 2009. Why is he allowed accommodations rent-free? Who pays his $15K stipend? Is this money being deposited w/the Town Treasurer? Why is he paying relatives? Why doesn’t the sc thank Doniger for his years of service & wish him well in his retirement & hire music & drama teacher.
4) Eliminate the asst; superintendents position
5) Hire a D. O. E. certified Business Administrator
6) Eliminate the outreach coordinators job. Tyrell cannot justify this position w/o a list of interns & their work setting. This patronage appt. eliminated 2 union jobs. Is this position to help students a patronage job from Ford & Richardson?
7) The HTA president grieved this position over two years ago. It has been in the hands of an arbitrator for over a year. A patronage appointment between Richardson & Ford that was done behind closed doors.
At least Peters asked Mr. Q, “How many student interns do you have now?
Coach Q’s answer, “ I don’t know off the top of my head but I can check my books & get back to you.”
Being the basketball coach, athletic director & outreach coordinator is a trumped up position geared to fit Mr. Q’s background. Mr. Q should take the athletic directors position or the coaching position. It is a conflict because he is in a position to evaluate himself. Also, Mr. Q is not available
as athletic director when the boys play away from home.
Someone else has to be paid to fill in as athletic director during the girls’ basketball games at HHS
Jack Wholey
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And there it is. After weeks of almost constructive dialogue here on the blog from JW, he finally resumes his continued, lifelong personal agenda against Q.
You just want him to give up coaching so you can get the job that they never gave you.
Q is evaluated by the principle and open your eyes JW, no one is getting paid for girls basketball games. If you werent prevented from entering the hs as a result of a 'stay away order' based on your borderline stalking of q, you would know that the principle and assistant principle cover those games. What is a stay awya order? Is that a PC way of saying restraining order?
Stick to the numbers that are generating healthy questions jw and go get a voodoo doll of Q that you can take your frustrations out in the privacy of your quincy home.
Isnt scribners position already gone? I think I herd that is was now paid by town as an IT worker.
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I agree with Mr. Wholey. This was clearly a contrived position and it is the height of incompetence to lay off teachers and keep the Outreach Coordinator position. The fact that Coach Q had no idea of how many students are in the internship program is indicative of this. Is there even a job description for this position?
Not to mention that the coach having no education degree,credentials or experience. Getting paid more than teachers who had upwards of 30 years of teaching experience. It is wasteful corruption like this that will make the over ride fail again. I know sports are important to Hull and that he is a great guy but, until something is done about this and other wasteful spending,(like giving the former high school principal a golden parachute after only four mediocre years on the job) I cannot support an over ride.
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To Walter:
How do you arrive at such conclusions?
You state, and I quote, “It is important to note that the school budget numbers do not reflect health insurance which is carried separately in each town’s budget.”
Mr. Walter, this is not true. The Insurance, Retirement Plans and Other are below.
INSURANCE, RETIREMENT PLANS, AND OTHER
The Total School District Expenditures, All Funds, By Function, FY06 to FY08 is displayed on the D.O.E. website.
This summary indicates that the Hull School District spent as follows:
FY 06 $2,229,255 for Insurance, Retirement Programs, and Other
FY 07 $2,475,820 for Insurance, Retirement Programs and Other
FY 08 $2,776,620 for Insurance, Retirement Programs and Other
From FY 2006 to FY 2007 there was an 11.1 % increase within this line item
From FY 2007 to FY 2008 there was a 12.1% increase within this line item
From FY 2006 to FY 2008 the increase is 19.1% within this line item
PER PUPIL EXPENDITURE FOR ADMINISTRATION
The following is the PPE for administration in Hull & the five school districts:
ADMINISTRATIVE PPE:
Cohasset $611
Hingham $371
Marshfield $344
Norwell $407
Scituate $585
Hull $724 PPE
The avg. PPE for those five districts is $463. Hull’s PPE for administrators is $724.
The difference is $261. Hull pays $261 PPE more than the average of the five (5) school districts mentioned by you. Multiply that $261 X 1200 students, it calculates to $313,200 that Hull pays more than the five surrounding districts for administrators.
___________________________________________________________________
TOTAL EXPENDITURES PER PUPIL
Using the same five (5) school districts to compare the Total Expenditures Per Pupil will illustrate the disparity between Hull and the surrounding districts
Cohasset $13,101
Hingham $11,508
Marshfield $10,045
Norwell $10,811
Scituate $10,792
HULL $13,700
There is a $2449 difference in Total Expenditures Per Pupil between the average Total PPE of the five districts listed and the Hull district.
By multiplying the $2449 difference times the 1200 students in Hull, the total is $2,938,800. This $2,938,800 is what Hull spends in comparison to the 5 districts.
The average Total Expenditures Per Pupil in the school districts of Cohasset, Hingham, Marshfield, Norwell, and Scituate is $11,251.
In Hull the Total Expenditures Per Pupil is $13,700.
The difference is the $2449 Per Pupil. If Hull stayed within the average Total Expenditure Per Pupil of the five districts, the school department would save $2,938,800.
Jack Wholey
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I gotta FEVER for more Wholley!!!
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Ah, another number spinner!!!
Mr Wholey- notice them two words -ALL FUNDS-, doesn't say "school funds" it says "ALL FUNDS', and I take that to mean as "ALL FUNDS" available in the town governments budget. I looked at the samew DOE page you looked at, and it doesn't identify where that "INSURANCE, RETIREMENT PLANS, AND OTHER".
It says these are "Total School District Expenditures", doesn't say "Total School District Budget Expenditures", so, WHAT budget line item does that additional expenditure money come from?? DAY TO DAY OPERATIONAL BUDGET, or TOTAL TOWN BUDGET??
But it does bring up another interesting number- TOTAL EXPENDITURES-
Says in '08 TOTAL EXPENDITURES for School District, ALL FUNDS, was $18,624M Dollars. So, where's that put Hull in the TOTAL TOWN BUDGETS percentage split between school and the rest of the town??
I think THATS the number Walters wanting to see!! I'm NOT disagreeing with you about how much of that may or may not being pissed away by the school dept, I don't have enough knowledge about those things to qualify an opinion, but that still looks to be a pretty healthy percentage split between school and all other town expenses!!
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You're right! That number would actually be meaningful in making a decision about whether or not to support an over ride. It could be comparable to other town's expenditures or not, but the Town Manager's figures are decidedly not helpful in doing so and appear to muddy the waters instead of shedding more light and transparency.
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To Anonymous:
What are favoritism, cronyism, & patronage?
FAVORITISM is just what it sounds like; favoring a person not because he is the most qualified but rather because of some irrelevant membership in a favored group. Favoritism can be demonstrated in hiring & awarding jobs etc.
PATRONAGE is a related concept giving public service jobs to those who may have helped elect the person who has the power of appointment.
CRONYISM is a more specific form of favoritism, referring to partiality towards friends & associates. CRONYISM occurs within a network of insiders who talk favors on one another.
FAVORITISM, CRONYISM, & PATRONAGE all interfere w/ fairness because they give undue advantage to someone who does not necessarily merit this treatment.
In the public sphere, favoritism, cronyism, & patronage also undermine the common good. When someone is granted a position because of connections rather than because he has the best credentials & experience, the service that person renders to the public may be inferior.
Also, because favoritism is often secret, this practice undercuts the transparency that should be part of school hiring.
Connections, networking, family-almost everyone has drawn on these sources of support in job-hunting.
So what is the problem?
The first issue is competence. The American Civil Service Act was passed in large part because so many patronage jobs were being filled by people whose only qualification for appointment was their support for a particular group or candidate. Also, the appearance of favoritism weakens morale in the school system, not to mention public faith in the integrity of government.
Because of the element of favoritism, cronyism, and patronage within the schools, many residents that are not in the loop becomes frustrated. There is far too much favoritism, cronyism, & patronage occurring behind closed doors.
James Quatromoni was not qualified for the public education position that he was hired for. PERIOD!
Those positions were Union positions negotiated in good faith w/the sc. The position of community outreach coordinator is a joke. Nobody knows what businesses students are interning with & you cannot get that information.
ACCOUNTABILITY!
That is what is asked. What was done about the 40 students that dropped out of HH in a two-year period? If Richardson, Evans, Tyrell, & Quatromoni were aware of this alarming number of dropouts, why didn’t they do something about it? Quatromoni is not qualified as a guidance counselor but by the nature of his position & all of the time he must have on his hands, how did he not notice that 40 students dropped out of HH in a two-year period? How can these students go unnoticed? Maybe, these dropouts were not college bound but the fact that the business courses were eliminated along w/industrial tech, & computer tech courses might be one reason. These students have a Constitutional Right to a free public school education. Where are they now?
More to come!
JW
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I like the term "HACK" much better, its an american government institution
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How are the SAT scores?
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No matter how much money you throw at the school dept. It will not make a difference. They will just squander it away. I will not allow them to bleed my wallet any longer. We were told 10 years ago after we voted for these buildings that they would not come back and ask us for anymore money. They went way over their budget and did not put money aside for academics. That is not our problem. We MUST work within our budgets they must work within theirs! The 73 cents they said it would cost us a day is going towards my light, sewer
and water bill. According to the per pupil expenditure you get $26,000 for both of my kids. WORK WITH IT! Sorry this well is dry!
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I'm just trying get some perspective on this, so please bear with me. From what you have written, the cost of educating your children is $26,000.00 per year? And how much do you pay for property taxes to Hull? To me this sounds like a bargain even if your property taxes were $7,500.00 which would be a really great house in Hull. Perhaps I misunderstand the nature of the above statement?? Anybody know what the average property tax bill is?
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Alright- to just put another perspective on this post, we pay about $5500 @ year in RE taxes and have not a single member of either our household or combined families attending Hull Schools.
And look at it from one more perspective- The town(actually TM ) has already advised/recommended that RE taxes WILL go up the statutory max 2 1/2% in FY 11, and further discussion revealed that THAT will probably be the standard in this town(and probably many others in the Commonwealth) for at least the foreseeable future.
We got some school buildings we gotta pay for, and one way or another our taxes are gonna pay for 'em. And if ya watched the back & forth at the last BoS meeting, it sure sounds like the fund a majority of those payments are coming out of will hit Zero in FY12.And; if I'm not mistaken, we ain't paying for all the debt for those school bldg renovations yet. And; like I said, one way or another, those payments WILL come out of our RE taxes.
And maybe not a direct tax to us, but if the P.I.L.O.T. payments that Hull Light and sewer go up, I imagine so won't our electric and sewer bills. Asa sidebar to this, anybody read the artcle in the Ledger couple days back where Braintrees Municipal Light company just dropped its rates for the THIRD TIME in NINE months.
And, whether its a tax or not, we gotta reimburse Hull Light for those windmills.
And lets not forget those pocketbook friendly water bills we all get.
Yep sure, some of this stuff ain't RE taxes, but its all part of the price of living in this community, and just like RE taxes, we all get 'em, and we all gotta pay 'em.
As another little sidebar, I assist my niece, who is out of the country, take care of my Mothers old family home in Weymouth, where I was born and raised. Its occupied, and I just went and got the last combined water/sewer/trash collection bill for the home. For the last quarter that combined payment for all 3 was $98 Dollars.
Lets see- in Hull our last water bill(which I just paid)was just light of $300, our sewer bill, which I think is on the way as I type, will probably be a couple hundred bucks, and we pay $114 @ quarter for private weekly trash pick up.
I for one can NOT just look at how much the schools are costing us, we MUST; all of us, look at what it costs as a whole to live in this town
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They couldn't cut taxes enough to make me want to live in the City of Weymouth!
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And WHAT, pray tell, does this comment have to do with this discussion??
While I was born and raised there, I haven't actually lived there for many a year, since well before the form of government was changed and it "became" a city.
Five generations of my family were born and raised(and many of them lived their entire life) in Weymouth, and we all got; at the very least, a well above average public school education there. Matter of fact, my recently deceased Aunt taught in Weymouth for 40 years and rose to the level of principal.
And the little single family subdivision of "World War Two" Veteran homes I was raised in during the 50's and 60's is virtually the same today as it was when I was living there. The few homes that sell there, mostly because the original owners have passed away and all the children; like me, grew up & moved on, still consistently sell both quickly and well. And there are MANY neighborhoods in Wey with similar characteristics.
So YOU may not want to live there, but apparently there is many that do!!!
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Obviously, the comment implies that I would rather pay higher taxes and enjoy the quality of life in Hull, than live in Weymouth with lower taxes and more amenities but more traffic, congestion, crime, etc. I choose to live here and I think it is worth it overall. If I was as discontent as you sound, I'd not be living here, life's too short. I just wish our government was more competently run, but that is the voters problem. We don't hold officials accountable. It has been well said that, in a democracy, we get the government we deserve. So, I guess we Hullonians must deserve this!
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I agree wholeheartedly!! Supposed to be "by the people,for the people", a governmental theory thats left the town hall, the state house, and the white house/washington DC long time ago. And that is exclusively the problem/fault of us voters/taxpayers/citizens.
But I don't know about that "quality of life" thingee. I don't think my quality of life would be that much different living in a weymouth versus living here in Hull. Except of course for the "fixed costs" being at least somewhat, if not alot, cheaper.
And crime??, what crime you talking about, DRUGS?? You don't think we have ah.., lemme see, how do I word this, "healthy" drug problem in this town?? And have for awhile??
Weymouth has a "healthy" drug problem, and has for quite some time. When I was growing up there way back when Heroin was rampant in the town, and it don't look like its changed much.
Other crimes, I think Hull has its fair share of it, just as much, per capita, as any other town.
Traffic and congestion- you here in the summer time?? Granted here in Hull we only have a "traffic season", where as in wey its more of a year round thing. But the nice thing about wey is that there are many ways around the congested areas. Hull don't have that.
And you driven Atlantic Ave lately?? That guy that put the auto shop up beside Town Hall had a good idea, someplace for the Atl. Ave "regulars" to go and have their cars tires, shocks, and front end parts repaired or replaced. And by the way, they do good work for a good price. Yep sure, it may be done over someday, but when is that, someday over the rainbow???
And what I say is not so much discontent as it is fact. You don't think we pay W-A-Y too much in taxes in this town?? For what we get for it?? "Gold standard" water rates, no trash collection and town governing bodies whose primary focus for at least the last 3 years has been nothing more than trying to get more tax dollars out of our collective pockets.
Firefighters, Police & teachers losing their jobs and making concessions, but there sure seems to be some awful big paydays coming out of the upper stratosphere of our towns hired leadership.
And I'm sure this will draw the ire of some, but; far as I'm concerned, when it comes down to having some dollars to spend on either a school sports program or an educational program or teacher for the schools, say bye-bye sports program. I don't even wanna hear about sports when our schools budget is being discussed, I'll value a music or arts teacher anyday over a sports coach.
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To Anonymous: Where did you go?
ACCOUNTABILITY OR ACCREDITATION PROBLEMS
The Commission on Pubic Secondary Schools is the accreditation agency for public high schools. The Commissions’ letter to Jonathan Ford, 6/8/08, was in response to the Pre-Self-Study Report from Ford.
The Commission will be re-visiting HHS in 2011.
COMMISSION GUIDELINES FOR ACCREDITATION
- ACCESSIBILITY TO FACILITIES FOR THE HANDICAPPED
The Committee expects the entire school facility & all programs will be accessible to the handicapped.
- COUNSELOR/COUNSELEE RATIO
Each member school should have a student/counselor ration not to exceed 300:1. If this caseload is exceeded, the school must prove that a full ranges of students’ needs are being met. This includes on-going student, individual & group meetings w/guidance counselors, the provision of personal career, & college counseling, student course selection, & personal wellness. The HS should also clarify the guidance counselor’s roles in crisis intervention teams, mediation & violence prevention programs, special education teams, & working w/community mental health providers.
- DROPOUTS
Schools reporting high dropout rates shall describe & assess the effectiveness of preventative programs & services offered to address this issue.
(During Tyrell’s first two years & Ford’s last two years, 40 students dropped out of HHS.)
- HEALTH SERVICES
Each member school should have nursing services available in the building, throughout the school day, to provide preventive health services & direct intervention for students.
- SCHOOL LIBRARIAN/MEDIA SPECIALIST
Each member school with 400 or more students should have a full-time, certified librarian/media specialist.
* POI ‘the server that hosted the Winnebago library system crashed & all system data was lost in 2001. It took five years for all new materials to been added to the Winnebago library automated system.’
- SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE POLICY
Principals must report, within sixty days of occurrence, any substantive change in the school, which have a negative impact on the school’s ability to meet any of the Commission’s Standards for Accreditation. The following are potential areas where there might be negative substantive changes that must be reported:
- Elimination of fine arts, practical arts & student activities
- Cuts in the number of teachers and/or guidance counselors
- Cuts in the number of support staff
- Decrease in student services
- Cuts in the educational media staffing
* Ironically, under Tyrell’s Superintendence, Foxboro was put on warning notice for the elimination of guidance staff in 2005.
Does this sound familiar?
Tyrell, w/the help from the sc, eliminating HHS guidance staff, the business dept, the computer tech program, & industrial arts programs at HHS, but it does not appear to disturb any of them.
Next, I will show how Tyrell, Richardson, Evans, Ford & Q reported their remedies to the Commissions’ mandates. Then you can decide if they need more money.
JW
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Johnnyboy,
I think we have a lot more in common than we differ on. However, traffic alone in Weymouth would drive me out of my mind, but maybe I'm just spoiled by living in Hull.
Your points about the other taxes/costs of living here are valid. I would like this blog to discuss some of those issues including comparisons of spending in other departments besides schools. Do you know how we can start a new thread on this blog?
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I think you submit it to hullblog@comcast.net
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Bottom line...The SC think they lost the debt exclusion last year because it wasn't just for the schools. They still believe they have the support out there for this over ride especially since it is only for the schools. Have it on the ballot, give them a good healthy reality slap. The school department (sorry district) is in this mess because they gave pay raises that they could not afford. Shame on them. The SC needs real scutiny at all there meetings and real candidates to run for SC.
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I have followed the discussion on the percentage of the budget that goes to the school that was put forth by the Town Manager and discussed on this blog. I sincerely hope the School Committee will defend their 35/65 numbers and why, or if, this is a better way to compare Hull with other communities' spending on their schools.
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defend their analysis that the ration is 35/65 and why that is a more accurate comparison to other towns.
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To Anonymous: Where did you go?
ACCOUNTABILITY OR ACCREDITATION PROBLEMS
The Commission on Pubic Secondary Schools is the accreditation agency for public high schools. The Commissions’ letter to Jonathan Ford, 6/8/08, was in response to the Pre-Self-Study Report from Ford.
The Commission will be re-visiting HHS in 2011.
COMMISSION GUIDELINES FOR ACCREDITATION
- ACCESSIBILITY TO FACILITIES FOR THE HANDICAPPED
The Committee expects the entire school facility & all programs will be accessible to the handicapped.
- COUNSELOR/COUNSELEE RATIO
Each member school should have a student/counselor ration not to exceed 300:1. If this caseload is exceeded, the school must prove that a full ranges of students’ needs are being met. This includes on-going student, individual & group meetings w/guidance counselors, the provision of personal career, & college counseling, student course selection, & personal wellness. The HS should also clarify the guidance counselor’s roles in crisis intervention teams, mediation & violence prevention programs, special education teams, & working w/community mental health providers.
- DROPOUTS
Schools reporting high dropout rates shall describe & assess the effectiveness of preventative programs & services offered to address this issue.
(During Tyrell’s first two years & Ford’s last two years, 40 students dropped out of HHS.)
- HEALTH SERVICES
Each member school should have nursing services available in the building, throughout the school day, to provide preventive health services & direct intervention for students.
- SCHOOL LIBRARIAN/MEDIA SPECIALIST
Each member school with 400 or more students should have a full-time, certified librarian/media specialist.
* POI ‘the server that hosted the Winnebago library system crashed & all system data was lost in 2001. It took five years for all materials to been added to the Winnebago library automated system.’
- SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE POLICY
Principals must report, within sixty days of occurrence, any substantive change in the school, which have a negative impact on the school’s ability to meet the Commission’s Standards for Accreditation. The following are potential areas where there might be negative substantive changes that must be reported:
- Elimination of fine arts, practical arts & student activities
- Cuts in the number of teachers and/or guidance counselors
- Cuts in the number of support staff
- Decrease in student services
- Cuts in the educational media staffing
* Ironically, under Tyrell’s Superintendence, Foxboro was put on warning notice for the elimination of guidance staff in 2005.
Does this sound familiar?
Tyrell, w/the help from the sc, eliminating HHS guidance staff, the business dept, the computer tech program, & industrial arts programs at HHS, but it does not appear to disturb any of them.
Next, I will show how Tyrell, Richardson, Evans, Ford & Q reported their remedies to the Commissions’ mandates. Then you can decide for yourself if they need more money.
JW
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I gotta FEVER for more Wholley!!!
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OK, I have read all of the comments here.
So, what do we do? Can we ask the school committee to respond to what Mr. Wholey is putting out? Are these real issues or just his own complaints about specific people?
What I am trying to do is make a decision on whether I want to support this 21st century school thing, and I don't know how to make a decision.
If I listen to all these negative comments and vote no, what will happen? Kids will still have to pay fees for everything and there will still be no social studies and foreign language at the Memorial.
But if I vote yes, taxes go up permanently.
So I'm asking if any of the people commenting a lot here, like Mr. Wholey, can give me some guidance. What are you saying I should do when it comes time to vote?
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Dear Hullonian,
It is your vote. Take the infromation you are given, Examine the sources of that information, Ask questions at as many public meetings as you can go to, Ask direct questions via email or otherwise, then make your decision. What do I wish to see happen? What Can I afford? What do I wish to see that I can afford. When you can answer these "common sense" questions, you will know how to vote.
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Hats of to Mr. Shaffer, Mr. Elisii Mr.Buzzotta and Ms. Gallagher. All of you hit the nail on the head. Everyone of you spoke the truth in your letters to the local paper. Its about time this town starts getting upset. Our taxes are high enough and it is only going to get worse if the state cuts our aid by $598K. This town promised not to come back to us for anymore money after the schools were built like Mr. Shaffer said. Here we are again, they have their hand out and their putting the burden back on us. We are accountable for staying within our budgets the town should do the same.
As for you Mr. Finn it seems funny that someone that was over seeing this building project would be upset. You and all your buddies on the Building Committee were the ones that approved all those extras that we the tax payers are stuck with (example the front entrance of the Jacobs school and the two music rooms with the drum and piano keys in the ceiling.) Maybe if you cut all those extras out we could have hired a Full time facilities manager.
Maybe if you looked at the enrollment figures a little closer we probably should have only rehabbed two schools.
I also read that we are loosing a great principle that works from sun to sun. Why are they letting her go? They should let the one a the Jacobs School go Ms. Feeney has more experience. Oh I forgot Ms. Tobin is part of the MILTON crowd.
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I very much agree with what you say, and I agreed with what the aforementioned HT letter writers said as well.
But my comment is this- we can't establish this as an "us versus them" game. Well, its not so much establish as it is continue. "the town", the "school committee", "the superintendent" , the "whoever" are not entities seperate to us, they are us.
And it appears in Hull, as it does in many parts of our country, that we've given the "us" part over to "them".
The sheeple listen to our "leaders", and then the sheeple lock step do what the "leaders" say that needs to be done.
Its voter, taxpayer & citizen apathy. Look what happened at the debt exclusion question on last years ballot. It was defeated; narrowly, but no one showed up to vote on the issue. Like the upcoming 2 1/2 override question, the debt exclusion question of last year would effect the wallet of every property owner in this town, but most of 'em couldn't have been bothered to show up at the polls and cast a vote to answer that question.
As citizen taxpaying voters of "little ole Hull", we can't do much to change what happens at the state and federal level, but we can sure have some bearing on what happens at the town level.
We have 2 BoS incumbents that have filed their intent to run for office again, plain and simple, get rid of them. Break the political machine that runs this town. WHY do these same people keep getting re-elected?? There isn't one person sitting on that board that I have ever voted for, and I vote at every election. Do ya think the people elected to that BoS are doing the peoples bidding; which in theory is what an elected representatives job is SUPPOSED to be, or do you think that are up there solely advocating their personal agendas, and those of their closest like minded cronies??
Only time I've communicated with one of the current BoS members was an email exchange about an issue about town hall that I opined needed to be rectified. Not a major issue, but an issue none the less. The result- both my idea and opinion was summarily dismissed by this member in a fairly curt manner and that I didn't really know enough about anything to warrant an opinion and was invited to spend as much time researching any and all issues as much as they had.
That sound like a reasonably toned response from an elected leader?? I don't think so, and therein lies the problem.
We need to send a VERY clear and present message to our elected leaders. And all the talk and them foolish over the top meetings with all these elected leaders pontificating on and on endlessly is not where we change it, we change it at the Memorial School every May!!
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JFK once said, "We get the government that we demand and deserve." If only I had your faith that we could get a better government through the ballot box, but if the same people are voting, whether through ignorance or knowledge, we'll once again get what we deserve.
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my point exactly
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It's too bad this town can't seem to keep employees that deeply care for our town.
Ms. Feeney I want to thank you for the hours and hours of dedicated service you have given to the children of Hull. My kids will miss you also.
Many parents saw this coming and its no surprise. Don't worry another system with scoop you up and it is our loss.
Miss Evans do you think you can call your Principal friend (Lance Romance) and bring him back? I'm sure he's not do anything. A lot of good he did us..... Keep them coming!
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Who the heck is Lance Romance? And what do you mean?
It is completely understandable why administrators leave this system. Let's face it they come from outside, do a little resume building and they're off. We should really focus on the employees who actually make a difference,and have made a positive impact on this community; teachers! Instead they pretty much get scapegoated for everything wrong and none of the positive.
Speaking of which, isn't there a Hull graduate who is a freshman at Harvard? Isn't Harvard the best university in the world? (sorry Yalies) I'm sure the school com. members, principals and superintendents can take credit for this achievement? Because it can't be the teachers who have taught in this system for years! Must be the transient administrators....
Oh, by the way,let's give the transients huge bonuses on their way out! Only in Hull
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If the school committee wants to be truly transparent and "accountable" they should disclose ALL of the terms of each administrators contract. Anything short of this is just a meaningless use of buzzwords and talking points. We do not want our hard earned money going to employees as they move on to greener pastures, like the 57,000.00 the last high school principal received as he went out the door in June. Do not vote for an override until full disclosure of these deals is made!
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Did they really give Ford a $57,000.00 bonus? Does anyone know this for sure? Or is this another piece of gossip? What our officials do not realize is that they are not free to spend our money any way they want to. I pay almost $500.00 per month in property taxes. This may not seem like a lot to some, but to me it could be put to very good use. We trust in our officials to spend it wisely for the benefit of our community. Not to curry favor through some sweetheart deals! Until this is cleared up and full disclosure is made; no override! If this is true and happens again; tax boycott! Come and get us.. we'll be in the delinquent tax line behind the elected officials.
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How do our elected officials get away without paying taxes? Maybe we all should stop paying our mortgages and taxes! What a country! No Override!
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To: onlyinhull:
You must be kidding me. You must be just coming back from Florida.
You state, "Does anyone know this for sure? Or is this another piece of gossip?"
Dear 'onlyinhull,'
Where have you been? This $57,000 was a going away present and has been a well known fact for months. It has been documented and verified in the Times and on this Blog often.
YES! Everyone knows this for sure. It was signed sealed and delivered by the sc chairman, Kevin Richardson. It is a part of the give and take process that Richardson and other sc members allow.
Just as the superintendent's contract was revised after one year of service by Richardson for accomplishments that the sc and chairman felt were as a reward for Tyrells' first year accomplishments. Tyrell went from $135,000 to $139,5000 and was given a new contract that would continue to give her an increase in pay at several different times during her employment.
This new contract was done in an Executive Session meeting in violation of the Open Meeting Laws.
The sc voted, in Open Session, to go into Executive Session for the purpose of collective bargaining and not for the purposes of re-negotiation the superintendents' contract.
This Executive Meeting was in October, 2008 which is months after the superintendents' first year anniversary of July 2008.
Thanks to Richardson and his colleagues Tyrell received retroactive pay and in this new contract with many additional perks.
This New Deal was signed by Kevin Richardson w/o a date on the new contract or any other town employee's signature. The only signatures were Kevin Richardsons' and Kathleen Tyrells.
All previous superintendent contracts have been signed by the town accountant, town manager, or another top manager in town government.
Why no third signature? Why no date? Why was the Executive Session meeting on the topic of the superintendent's contract not voted as that in Open Session? When did the sc evaluate the superintendent and was was and is the evaluation form used to evaluate her?
I have a copy of the contract and it is a matter of public record.
"There is somethin wrong here, somethin very, very wrong!" Al Pacino, 'In Justice for All'
So, when onlyinhull writes, "What our officials do not realize is that they are not free to spend our money any way they want to."
My response is that these officials, as you reference them, DO NOT CARE. They realize that they can do whatever they want when they want and nobody can do a thing about it
Welcome to the HullBlog "onlyinhull." Where have you been?
Peter Fondalakus
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These members of the SC are all elected to their positions correct??? We hold elections in this town every May, correct??
VOTE THEM OUT!!! How difficult is this??
We have 2 BoS members coming up for re-election this May, and they've both indicated that they will be throwing their hats back into the ring once again. They've both been in those seats W-A-Y to long, get rid of them.
And do the same to the SC.
Remember the old saw- politicians are like diapers, they need to be changed regularly and for the same reason!!!
I guarantee ya no BoS or SC incumbent is getting a vote outa our house, and its been that way for awhile, but these hacks just keep getting elected and re-elected, so somebody must think they're doing a fine job.
OR, we come back to that apathy. The few that do show up to vote don't take the time to watch the BoS or SC meetings, or take the time to find out just what these elected "leaders" are doing in their positions, and if those actions in any way, shape, or form dovetails with the beliefs these voters have. And they get to the booth(if they bother to show up), and seeing as they don't know anything about the available candidates on that election ballot, they vote same ole, same ole.
I don't know, I just know these same people keep getting elected over and over again, and NOTHNG ever changes.
This is OUR TOWN, OUR GOVERNMENT folks, don't belong to them, belongs to US
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THAT CONTRACT SHOULD BE Investigated!!!!
LETS SEE Accountability ON THIS TOPIC BEFORE YOU ASK US TO BACK YOUR 21 ST CENTURY SCHOOLS! THE BUCK STOPS HERE!
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Not ALL administrators who have left the system were given those kinds of perks. When the Jacobs principal retired three years ago, he did not receive ANY buy back for sick days and only was allowed to keep 10 accrued vacation days even though he had many, many more accrued. I don't know of any other administrator who received the kind of package that Ford got.
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So your point is that because one employee didn't get a golden parachute its OK for the School committee to give away our hard earned money? Money that could have been used to buy new books, etc.? Please!
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Lets do what they did in Rhode Island with this whole town. Clean house and get rid of them all from the town manger down!!!! WE DO NOT TRUST YOU!
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Someone is going to clean out the manger? Didn't even know that we had one?!
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I will not vote for any incumbent in either the school committee or selectmens race.
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hundreds of comments...everyone the expert on what is wrong and no one is taking out papers to run for open seats....nothing but hot air. cant do more than some factless, slanderous statements. what jokers. pitiful.
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Would you jump on board a sinking ship???? We would not be in this trouble if our school comm. did not trade fancy buildings for academics! Why don't you pull papers?
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